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Confuzzled. Which "high end" GPU set-up?

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5 Feb 2011
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It's been a long time coming but I've finally saved enough to upgrade my Q6600 set-up. Although I use my rig for audio production I'm a pariah amongst the old guard in audio circles as I also use it for (gasp) gaming. Frankly I don't have the money for a separate audio-only Mac and, using a dual boot set-up, I'm able to keep everything running smoothly audio-wise with no complaints. However, gaming is a different matter. I spend a good deal of my time either in hospital or at home as I have Crohns and one of the things that helps me cope is gaming, in particular, immersive, ultra-realistic games, mainly sanbox RPG's such as Fallout 3 and New Vegas, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., the Elder Scrolls series etc. etc. although I'm a sucker for old school RPG's as well but they're not as much of a system strain... ;) (I'm sure the escapism factor would give most psychotherapists a field day). I also enjoy modding games and pushing the graphics of these titles to the limit. Unfortunately, this is where the Q6600, Radeon HD 5870, 4GBs of RAM and Acer P243W 24" is coming unstuck.

Apologies for the pre-amble but this is where I'm at now: I'm buying the Sandy Bridge-E Core i7 3930K when it's released (well, maybe a week or so afterwards just in case anymore bugs rear their ugly heads, although after the expense of the last debacle I somehow doubt there'll be problems... ;) ), pairing it with 16GB of RAM (a lot, but the audio recording side of things really eats it up), an OCZ Vertex 3 SSD Boot Drive, 2xOCZ Vertex 3 SSD's 1 for gaming/films and 1 for audio/graphics work (although on a separate topic I'm unsure whether to go 2x240GB or 1x512GB with partition) using an HX 1200 to power it. Mobo, case and cooling are currently undecided although I "think" I'm going for a Lian-Li case. Ideally I'd prefer to keep it rackmounted like my existing 4U Compucase system as it would fit neatly at the bottom of my audio rack but I've been told that rackmounted cases aren't as efficient at cooling as full towers designed with intensive gaming systems in mind? I've also read that the i7 3930K will be bundled with a liquid cooler so that might solve my cooling issues: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cooler...2011_Chips_with_Own_Brand_Liquid_Coolers.html ). My problem is that I'm well and truly stumped over the graphics card. At the start of November I'm getting a Dell U3011 and will be running just one monitor at 2560x1600 for a while till funds recover. However, at the start of next year it's my intention to go tri-screen so I'm trying to factor this in. Here are my options as I see it at the moment:

1. 2x1.5GB GTX 580 Lightning Xtreme
2. 2x3GB GTX 580 Lightning Xtreme
3. 2xRadeon HD 6990

I'm looking for a set-up that, for example, will allow me to run the likes of the forthcoming Skyrim in Ultra all round as well as coping with any intensive graphics mods I may end up throwing at it and aquit itself well when I introduce 2 additional screens. I've read that there's been some people not entirely happy with the dual-gpu set-up of cards such as the 6990 but I'm afraid I don't know enough to be able to make a reliable judgement on that front. I know it's a fair wedge of money I'd be putting toward this and I hope I don't offend anyone as it's not my intention to do so haphazardly. If anyone has any other suggestions or thinks that I'm going the wrong way with anything I'd genuinely appreciate the input :)

Cheers,

Leigh.
 
The best of the best I reckon would be:

2x3GB GTX 580 Lightning Xtreme

Reason is becuase 4 way xfire I bet is way too problamatic with the drivers than 2 cards.

Plus you are getting an extra 1Gb of Vram with the 3Gb 580's

The only thing you would have to check is can dual 580's drive all the screens you want. (As in does it have the outputs)
 
The best of the best I reckon would be:

2x3GB GTX 580 Lightning Xtreme

Reason is becuase 4 way xfire I bet is way too problamatic with the drivers than 2 cards.

Plus you are getting an extra 1Gb of Vram with the 3Gb 580's

The only thing you would have to check is can dual 580's drive all the screens you want. (As in does it have the outputs)

+1 for two 580 3gb cards.
 
I'd probably go with 2x6990 if you're wanting the fastest, simply because it'd be two dual-GPU cards in stead of two singles. The 2x3GB 580s is almost as attractive though.

I must point out that Skyrim is a DX9 game and will need very little to be "maxed" by today's standards. :p
 
Thanks for the input guys. Stability is important to me so at the moment I "think" the 2x 3GB 580 Lightning cards are edging it. Out of interest does anyone know if there are any tuned versions of the 590 planned for release anytime soon?
 
Honestly, you're waiting anyway for SB-E, new gen AMD cards are going to be out, December-January, I really can't see a whole lot of point dumping a crapload of money on the most expensive cards in the weeks leading up to them being smashed to pieces by new cards.

I'm really not sure why 2x6970's aren't an option there, look at newer games, take BF3, or a bunch of other games, the 6970 is basically on par with a 580gtx these days in many many games. Hugely cheaper, use less power, and standard price gets you 2gb, while you have to pay extra to get 3gb on a 580gtx.

I have no idea what Audio work you actually do though, is it insanely CPU intensive, or just a little bit. Sandybridge-e WILL be faster CPU wise, but be honest about if you need it, keep in mind just how much faster a 2500k or 2600k even more so is over a Q6600. You haven't been forced to upgrade till now over how slow a Q6600 is, so I can't imagine you're particularly CPU limited, in which case, why throw so much money at the most expensive chip on the market?

SSD wise, for audio streaming I can understand it, though I may just be assuming the bandwidth required for streaming/playing with audio is significantly less than high bitrate video.

Its not really about saving money so much as just not wasting money.

Tuned versions of 590gtx's aren't planned afaik, and they won't be much better, Nvidia cheaped out on the VRM's, there was no reason to, realistically its just a product Nvidia wanted "out there" but not really in production or being sold.... or being replaced. Its a e-peen thing really, Nvidia just wanted a duallie card so made one, its fast enough but made it undesirable enough they don't have to really put a lot of effort into supporting it for the next few years.

Anyway, as you're ok to wait for SB-E, I'd definately wait for new gen AMD, and go with 2x 7970's(assuming thats what they are called), that would be significantly faster than anything you've listed, and cheaper than the 3 options listed too boot, aswell as using half the power.... or less. But I'd seriously consider if you NEED a hexcore cpu and expensive mobo, or if you'd do fine with a £230 2600k.

Again assuming the Q6600 is liveable for audio work now, I'd also assume thats not moving on any time soon, and games, categorically will NOT require hexcore cpu's within 2 years.
 
Have to agree with drunkenmaster. This is a bad time to upgrade your gpu with amd set to release cards that should be much faster than a gtx580 and probably cost less.
 
Honestly, you're waiting anyway for SB-E, new gen AMD cards are going to be out, December-January, I really can't see a whole lot of point dumping a crapload of money on the most expensive cards in the weeks leading up to them being smashed to pieces by new cards.

I'm really not sure why 2x6970's aren't an option there, look at newer games, take BF3, or a bunch of other games, the 6970 is basically on par with a 580gtx these days in many many games. Hugely cheaper, use less power, and standard price gets you 2gb, while you have to pay extra to get 3gb on a 580gtx.

I have no idea what Audio work you actually do though, is it insanely CPU intensive, or just a little bit. Sandybridge-e WILL be faster CPU wise, but be honest about if you need it, keep in mind just how much faster a 2500k or 2600k even more so is over a Q6600. You haven't been forced to upgrade till now over how slow a Q6600 is, so I can't imagine you're particularly CPU limited, in which case, why throw so much money at the most expensive chip on the market?

SSD wise, for audio streaming I can understand it, though I may just be assuming the bandwidth required for streaming/playing with audio is significantly less than high bitrate video.

Its not really about saving money so much as just not wasting money.

Tuned versions of 590gtx's aren't planned afaik, and they won't be much better, Nvidia cheaped out on the VRM's, there was no reason to, realistically its just a product Nvidia wanted "out there" but not really in production or being sold.... or being replaced. Its a e-peen thing really, Nvidia just wanted a duallie card so made one, its fast enough but made it undesirable enough they don't have to really put a lot of effort into supporting it for the next few years.

Anyway, as you're ok to wait for SB-E, I'd definately wait for new gen AMD, and go with 2x 7970's(assuming thats what they are called), that would be significantly faster than anything you've listed, and cheaper than the 3 options listed too boot, aswell as using half the power.... or less. But I'd seriously consider if you NEED a hexcore cpu and expensive mobo, or if you'd do fine with a £230 2600k.

Again assuming the Q6600 is liveable for audio work now, I'd also assume thats not moving on any time soon, and games, categorically will NOT require hexcore cpu's within 2 years.
Ok, I'll try and answer everything.
The Q6600 and my current set-up can no longer take my audio workload. Up till now it's had it easy, only being used for very rough demo's running very few VST's and a bare minimum of CPU hungry one's at that. I've been doing the majority of my more intensive audio work at another studio. This is now changing. As of next month I'll be working on the final tracks for our second album myself without the use of the other studio. For the past 2 months I've been trying to put together the Pre-Production tracks and have been sorely tempted to put the whole thing through the ***cking window on numerous occasions: there's glitches, it hangs, stuttering, dropout, you name it, it does it and it's seriously effecting my work flow. The simple fact of the matter is that it can no longer cope with the workload (I currently run a tri-boot system, 1 for games, 1 for my graphic design work and 1 for audio production with the audio boot Win 7 OS stripped back to it's basic profile and with no superfluous software etc.). After talking it over with producers on the Sound On Sound forums and speaking with the guys I've been working with it became clear I not only needed to upgrade my rig but needed a multi-core CPU solution to make best use of the audio software I use. A 2500k/2600k is fine for gaming as you're quite right, the majority of games aren't configured to properly use a hex core CPU and probably won't be for some time, but it sadly just won't be enough for audio production.

I had no idea new GPU's were around the corner so please don't think I'm throwing money away needlessly on soon to be "outdated" tech, if I'd known there were new GPU's on the horizon there's a strong chance I'd be more than happy to wait! :) They're next gen AMD you say?

I'm also more than happy to consider the 2x6970 option. This thread is about asking for knowledge and I'm in no way dealing in absolutes in the list I presented as I'd hoped I'd made clear when I signed off the original post. If it falls short it's just a testament to my lack of knowledge rather than a blinkered desire not to consider anything else :)

When you say cards such as the GTX580 Lightning (in a dual configuration which is mainly what we're talking about) are going to be "smashed to pieces" would you mind expanding on that? I'm not being funny I'd just like to know the why's and wherefore's, in other words, what is it about them that's going to be so groundbreaking in comparison to those that are out now? :)

And if you'd like to know more about the kind of thing I do audio-wise I'd be more than happy to direct you to our bigcartel site where there's a few Limited Edition copies of the 1st album just waiting to be snapped up :D :p ;)
 
As drunkenmaster hasn't replied, could I ask if folk think it's worth holding off upgrading the graphics card side of things for a bit till the new tech arrives? Haven't had chance to do any research on it yet but hopefully will be able to have a rummage around on Google tonight or tomorrow.
 
I'd say yes, it is worth waiting. Not for everyone, but you are evidently throwing down a pretty hefty investment which will last you a while, so in your case I'd say it is worth waiting. The new cards will be made on a 28nm process instead of the current 40nm which (when you square those) gives roughly ~2 times as many transistors in the same area. Result is massively lowered power consumption (hence less heat, noise, smaller cards) and faster cards. Also cheaper production costs for AMD as the dies will be smaller. Since you're looking at multi-card setups then the heat/noise/power issue will be important.

On a seperate note, I would advise opting for the Crucial M4 series of SSDs as the are more reliable and a better brand. As you'll see here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/425?vs=350 the M4 is faster for read operations while the Vertex 3 is faster for write operations. The read operations are much more frequent and give a more noticeable increase in performance.
 
I'd say yes, it is worth waiting. Not for everyone, but you are evidently throwing down a pretty hefty investment which will last you a while, so in your case I'd say it is worth waiting. The new cards will be made on a 28nm process instead of the current 40nm which (when you square those) gives roughly ~2 times as many transistors in the same area. Result is massively lowered power consumption (hence less heat, noise, smaller cards) and faster cards. Also cheaper production costs for AMD as the dies will be smaller. Since you're looking at multi-card setups then the heat/noise/power issue will be important.

On a seperate note, I would advise opting for the Crucial M4 series of SSDs as the are more reliable and a better brand. As you'll see here http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/425?vs=350 the M4 is faster for read operations while the Vertex 3 is faster for write operations. The read operations are much more frequent and give a more noticeable increase in performance.

Thanks for that, very much appreciated :) After reading your post I delved into Google and read up on the Kepler and Southern Islands GPU's. It certainly looks like the wise move would be to wait it out just a little longer!

As I mentioned in my original post I'm currently using a stock Radeon HD 5870. As there are a few games on the horizon that I'd really like to experience on higher settings I was thinking about finding another 5870 on Fleabay and running them together for the 2, 3 or possibly 4 months it could conceivably take to see the new GPU's hit our shores. In my search I came across this site where it looks like he's done pretty much the same thing: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/10/multiple-video-cards.html At the moment the only cards I can find are the overclocked XFX series HD 5870's but, as he suggests, if I go down this temporary route, would it be a simple case of flashing the overclocked version to bring it in line with the speed of my existing card? I doubt I'd be able to achieve my eventual aim of running everything smoothly at 2560x1600 on "Ultra" settings all round but hopefully it might mean I can push the settings more than I can now and be able to enjoy the graphics of those titles I'm looking forward to in the interim a bit more :)

Thanks very much for the advice on the SSD's as well, it's great (and strangely comforting) to see the bench figures and to know that I can now go for the M4 and have made the right decision! A bit off topic but could I ask you one more question regarding SSD's? Using one SSD as Boot Drive is a no-brainer but I'm unsure whether to go for 2x240GB SSD's, using one for gaming/films and one for audio/graphics work (I'll probably be going Dual Boot) or just 1x512GB with partition? Someone mentioned to me a while back that going for one drive might be marginally quicker than using two but I was wondering if that was the case or if there are any other pitfalls/bonuses involved? My initial thought is that having two drives might be "safer" from the point of view of data loss if something goes horribly wrong and it could make life easier if I ever ever needed to transfer all of the audio files and misc studio data to another studio computer...or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
I do have some recommendations on SSDs:

a) SSD is a lot faster than HDD, especially in the area of 4k random access, and concurrent I/O with deep queue depth; This even helps the gaming performance where textures are loaded heavily, such like Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, RAGE, etc. (Advertisement here: http://www.intelssdgaming.com/united-kingdom/)

b) Do not bother with raid 0 of SSDs, unless you have got a professional raid card. When you put SSDs into raid 0, there are still troubles to get TRIM working, not having to mention that the 4k random performance may get harmed, which ruins the best gain from SSDs over HDDs.

If you can afford, then a single Crucial M4 512GB is the way to go. It offers best performance and sufficient capacity. You might want to consider the Intel 320 Series 600GB as well for better compatibility but it might be still vulnerable to the 8MB bug.
 
Such bad advice in this thread :p

If youre waiting for SB extreme, then also wait for the HD 7000s or Nvidia kepler.
 
I do have some recommendations on SSDs:

a) SSD is a lot faster than HDD, especially in the area of 4k random access, and concurrent I/O with deep queue depth; This even helps the gaming performance where textures are loaded heavily, such like Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, RAGE, etc. (Advertisement here: http://www.intelssdgaming.com/united-kingdom/)

b) Do not bother with raid 0 of SSDs, unless you have got a professional raid card. When you put SSDs into raid 0, there are still troubles to get TRIM working, not having to mention that the 4k random performance may get harmed, which ruins the best gain from SSDs over HDDs.

If you can afford, then a single Crucial M4 512GB is the way to go. It offers best performance and sufficient capacity. You might want to consider the Intel 320 Series 600GB as well for better compatibility but it might be still vulnerable to the 8MB bug.

Thanks for that. While pricing up the Vertex ** The mentioning or hinting name of competitors is strictly prohibited - Please read FAQs regarding rules **

couple of weeks ago I also checked out the 512GB Crucial RealSSD M4 (billed as the "new version"?) which came in at £539.41 Inc VAT so it's definitely within budget. I haven't looked into the Intel offering but thanks for the heads up. But, the 8MB bug?? Haven't heard of that! Looks like I've got some more reading ahead of me! ;)
 
If you're flush with cash you could always go with a good single card to tide you over until there's something newer and more 'next gen' is available. Remember, in terms of gpus, it could be a few months before you can buy something more powerful than whats available right now. A gtx570 or 6970 would probably do for a couple of months, or even a gtx580. More so, a pair of those models in SLi/xFire should surely last a good few months, or even more at the res you play at; wish I could tell you for sure. Few can, it's a big ask! Wish you the very best of luck :)
 
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If you're flush with cash you could always go with a good single card to tide you over until there's something newer and more 'next gen' is available. Remember, in terms of gpus, it could be a few months before you can buy something more powerful than whats available right now. A gtx570 or 6970 would probably do for a couple of months, or even a gtx580. More so, a pair of those models in SLi/xFire should surely last a good few months, or even more at the res you play at; wish I could tell you for sure. Few can, it's a big ask! Wish you the very best of luck :)

If 2nd hand GTX 570's or 6970's go for a good price I'd consider it but tbh I'd rather not spend over £100-150 on a card that's not going to last long in my new system. However, saying that, it would definitely end up being used as I'd put it/them in with my "old" set-up for my wife and I to use in our lounge so it wouldn't be a wasted purchase (bizarrely she turned out to be into gaming...as much of a surprise to me as it was to her!). Unfortunately my budget isn't limitless so I have to draw a line somewhere...damn it.
 
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