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Connecting 4K monitors using Displayport/Mini DP cables

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Edit, here is a database that anyone thinking of going 4K using Displayport may find useful.

Products Database

All products in the database bearing the DisplayPort logo have been tested against strict guidelines to ensure they will work as advertised. Only products that undergo testing are permitted to carry the DP logo.

http://www.displayport.org/products-database/?products_category%5b%5d=cables-connectors&products_manufacturer=


As some of you know I have been debating whether a single Mini DP cable can connect your GPUs to a 4K monitor @60htz.

I have just sent another email to Displayport.org about this question as they still have not replied.

While I was looking about their website I found this which if nothing else is a good read if you are thinking about going 4K.


DisplayPort makes display cable selection pretty easy. A standard DisplayPort cable is designed to work with any DisplayPort Source device, such as a PC or laptop, and any DisplayPort monitor. This means that a standard DisplayPort cable will work with the very first DisplayPort systems and displays introduced around five years ago, and they will continue to work with the newest and future systems and displays that support multi-stream and display resolutions up to 4K (Ultra HD) at 60Hz. You can also use a standard DisplayPort cable between a PC and a multi-stream hub, or between daisy-chainable multi-stream monitors. You don’t need worry about getting a special cable to support certain DisplayPort capabilities.

However, we should note that there is one rare exception to this rule; there are a few Reduced Bit Rate (RBR) cables on the market that will support only up to 1080p, but these are generally restricted to projector installation applications. Unless the cable is identified as RBR, it is a standard DisplayPort cable and will support all DisplayPort configurations.

Despite what you may read, there is no such thing as a DisplayPort 1.1 cable and DisplayPort 1.2 cable. A standard DisplayPort cable, including the so-call DisplayPort 1.1 cables, will work for any DisplayPort configuration including the new capabilities enabled by DisplayPort 1.2, including 4K and multi-stream capabilities. All standard DisplayPort cables support RBR, HBR (High Bit Rate), and HBR2 (High Bit Rate 2), which can support 4K at 60Hz, or up to four 1080p displays using multi-stream.

While retailers may try to sell you a more expensive cable touting it will provide a better picture quality, we are here to debunk that myth. Contrary to what you may think, the more expensive cable will not give you a better picture quality. DisplayPort uses packetized data, similar to USB and Ethernet, to send digital display and audio data, therefore you either get all of the data or you don’t. Unlike other older video interfaces, you don’t get a “better” picture or other incremental improvements with a more expensive cable. But of course a poor quality cable could lead to data errors and obvious corruption of the video or audio data, but you can avoid such cables, as explained further below.

One thing you will need to consider in your cable purchase is the connector type on each end of the cable. There are two DisplayPort connector types. The standard DisplayPort connector (see image 1) is about the size of a USB connector, and this type is commonly used on DisplayPort-enabled PC monitors. The smaller mini DisplayPort connector (see image 2) is commonly used for the DisplayPort output on notebook PCs including Apple products. The mini DP connector is now also used for Thunderbolt that is widely used on Apple products. And you can connect any DisplayPort monitor to a Thunderbolt Source, using a standard DisplayPort cable, while achieving DisplayPort quality (Thunderbolt is backwards compatible with DisplayPort, and even includes support for Dual-Mode DP-to-HDMI and DP-to-DVI adaptors, and DP-to-VGA adaptors).

An important criterion for selecting a DisplayPort cable is to know which type of DisplayPort connector you need at each end. The other obvious criterion is cable length; they are generally available in lengths of 1 to 3 meters (up to about 10 feet).

As mentioned previously, it is important to avoid low quality DisplayPort cables to prevent unexpected video or audio problems, and sometimes even system power-up problems. Always buy cables from a reputable computer system or accessory brand. Or safer yet, buy a cable that is DisplayPort certified. DisplayPort certified cables are listed here.

Recently VESA has experienced quite a few complaints regarding troublesome DisplayPort operation that ended up being caused by improperly made DisplayPort cables. These “bad” DisplayPort cables are generally limited to non-DisplayPort certified cables, or off-brand cables. To further investigate this trend in the DisplayPort cable market, VESA purchased a number of non-certified, off-brand cables and found that an alarmingly high number of these were configured improperly and would likely not support all system configurations. None of these cables would have passed the DisplayPort certification test, moreover some of these cables could potentially damage a PC, laptop, or monitor. We have not seen problems with the cables supplied by major computer brands, or major computer accessory brands, nor have we seen any problems with any of the cables that have been DisplayPort certified.

We expect to be adding more certified cables to our published list in the future and will continue to encourage DisplayPort product certification. To achieve the best of DisplayPort’s capabilities, we highly recommend using DisplayPort certified cables, or those from major brand names. Please continue to send us any questions or reports of bad cables that you may be experiencing.

– Craig Wiley, Chairman, VESA

http://www.displayport.org/cables/how-to-choose-a-displayport-cable-and-not-get-a-bad-one/

Although it does not say outright that a Mini DP will work at 4K, I am pretty sure that it will providing the guidelines above are followed.
 
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You were told in the other thread that DP 1.2 can do it, and it was also explained how and why (available bandwidth available over DP 1.2 versus what 4K@60Hz requires).

1080P@60Hz requires 4.45Gb/s, which mean 3840x2160@60Hz requires 17.8Gb/s, and DP1.2 has a max bandwidth of 21.6Gb/s. So yes, DP 1.2 can do 4K@60Hz over DP.

I know you won't accept that though, so;

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-019-AO

Specification:-
- Size with stand (W x H x D ) : 658.9x560.6x245 (mm)
- Without stand (W x H x D ): 658.9x395.8x50 (mm)
- Display Screen Size: 28" (70.8cm)
- Aspect ratio: 16:9
- Panel Type: TN
- Brightness: 300cd/m2
- Contrast Ratio: 1000:1 (Typ)
- Dynamic Contrast Ratio: 80,000,000
- Resolution: 3840x2160 (Only over DisplayPort at 60Hz)
- Response Time: 1ms (GTG)
- Viewing Angle (H / V ): 170 ° / 160 °
- Connectivity: 1x HDMI, 1x DisplayPort, 1x DVI, 1x VGA, 1x USB Hub
- Stand: Height adjust, pivot & Swivel
- USB Hub: Yes
- Speakers: Yes
- Warranty: 3yr

Also look to page 3

http://www.amd.com/Documents/50279_AMD_FirePro_DisplayPort_1-2_WP.pdf

There is also no difference between DP and miniDP outside of the connection, as I am getting the impression that you think there is.
 
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You were told in the other thread that DP 1.2 can do it, and it was also explained how and why (available bandwidth available over DP 1.2 versus what 4K@60Hz requires).

1080P@60Hz requires 4.45Gb/s, which mean 3840x2160@60Hz requires 17.8Gb/s, and DP1.2 has a max bandwidth of 21.6Gb/s. So yes, DP 1.2 can do 4K@60Hz over DP.

I know you won't accept that though, so;

http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-019-AO



Also look to page 3

http://www.amd.com/Documents/50279_AMD_FirePro_DisplayPort_1-2_WP.pdf

There is also no difference between DP and miniDP outside of the connection, as I am getting the impression that you think there is.

You obviously did not read what I wrote in the OP.

If you really want to have a go at me for the shear hell of it please be my guest and carry on.:D
 
As I understand it Mdp or DP will do 4k at 60hz but if the GPU is 1.2 DP/mDP output then it will render the screen as two tiles.

Seems you need a GPU with mDP/DP 1.3 output (I think all GPU outputs are mDP) to run 4k at single tile render. (This is how I'm understanding it at the moment.

The 4k Samsung and the Asus available at OCuk are recommended in the AMD gumpf that they are SST (single tile) supporting monitors so that if you have a 1.3 DP output GPU it can render as one tile and if you have 1.2 the GPU will render at 2 tiles. Both will be at 60hz. 1.2 renders as an eyefinity/surround display and 1.3 will render as one display.
 
As I understand it Mdp or DP will do 4k at 60hz but if the GPU is 1.2 DP/mDP output then it will render the screen as two tiles.

Seems you need a GPU with mDP/DP 1.3 output (I think all GPU outputs are mDP) to run 4k at single tile render. (This is how I'm understanding it at the moment.

The 4k Samsung and the Asus available at OCuk are recommended in the AMD gumpf that they are SST (single tile) supporting monitors so that if you have a 1.3 DP output GPU it can render as one tile and if you have 1.2 the GPU will render at 2 tiles. Both will be at 60hz. 1.2 renders as an eyefinity/surround display and 1.3 will render as one display.

I thought that the split screen thing was a monitor issue?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/10/24/amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review/3

The reasons for this tiled approach is mostly to do with display standards. Even though the DisplayPort 1.2 High Bit Rate 2 (HBR2) standard has enough effective bandwidth to support 4K at 60Hz using a single video stream (Single-Stream Transport, or SST), the required input controllers for monitors aren't currently available. It's therefore necessary to use DisplayPort in Multi-Stream Transport (MST) mode to run the two tiles at 60Hz. It's also possible to use two separate HDMI cables from the same source to do it, although it's generally considered less effective. The HDMI 1.4 standard isn't able to power 4K at 60Hz (hence the need for two cables), but thankfully the recently revealed HDMI 2.0 one is.

Also to quote what i said before:

The new Apple Mac Pro has Thunderbolt 2 ports capable of supporting 4K/UHD @ 60Hz
Thunderbolt 2 utilises DP1.2

Mini DisplayPort

The following year, in early 2009, VESA announced that Mini DisplayPort would be included in the upcoming DisplayPort 1.2 specification. On 24 February 2011, Apple and Intel announced Thunderbolt, a successor to Mini DisplayPort which adds support for PCI Express data connections while maintaining backwards compatibility with Mini DisplayPort based peripherals.

If DP1.2 supports 4K/UHD @ 60Hz then i'm struggling to find a reason why a MiniDP 1.2 wouldn't. It's the same regardless of the connector surely?
 
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If DP1.2 supports 4K/UHD @ 60Hz then i'm struggling to find a reason why a MiniDP 1.2 wouldn't. It's the same regardless of the connector surely?

Its just because its an official "Specification" - is how I read it.

Ie they have to actually specificallly mention every viable option in the specification. even if its just a reducing in form factor of the connector.
 
I thought that the split screen thing was a monitor issue?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/10/24/amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review/3


Ah, hadn't seen that Rossi.

What confused me was this from the AMD linky in LtMatts post.

The technology to carry a signal for two or more monitors on a single cable is called MST, or “multi-stream transport,” a component of the DisplayPort 1.2 specification long supported by AMD Radeon graphics cards. MST is the same feature that has also allowed AMD Radeon GPUs to support multiple monitors from a single DisplayPort output via hubs or daisychaining for many years.1


While MST was a smart and effective solution to bring 4K panels to market at 60 Hz, the graphics industry was already hard at work to realize an ecosystem of support for UltraHD via SST, or “single-stream transport.” These new-generation scalers would have the bandwidth to drive a full 3840x2160 at 60 Hz as a single tile over DisplayPort, which would simplify configuration for the user and help reduce production costs and complexity for the manufacturer.

It confused me (easy) by saying that MST is 1.2 and below the quote in the original AMD page it has 1.3 below it.
 
Ah, hadn't seen that Rossi.

What confused me was this from the AMD linky in LtMatts post.



It confused me (easy) by saying that MST is 1.2 and below the quote in the original AMD page it has 1.3 below it.

It actually looks as though it could be compatibility issues both ways maybe. Can't transmit from the graphics card properly in SST so does MST, the monitor can't deal with the MST properly so splits it? I don't know, but time will sort this out i'm sure.
 
Update

I have found a Mini DP to Displayport cable (Made by Accell) that supports the correct bandwidth and standard (1.2) to be compatible with a GTX 690.

So yes you can run 4K over a Mini DP cable.
 
Jeez lads so much round about about the same thing.

MiniDP, and DP are the exact same thing. You just need 1.2 for MST to support 60Hz at UHD.
If not Apple also wouldn't have just gone the TB/miniDP route for everything.

Plug it in and get going. The only issue might getting a nice miniDP to DP cable, although Kaapstad has found one. :)
 
I think we all get that.

Whilst it does support MST for a 4k display to work without MST you want the GPU to see it as one tile.

Some 4k displays have the scalers effectively showing the GPU it is 2 screens thus requiring the GPU to invoke an eyefinity or surround setup. Each withtheir own drawback and extra layer of processing required.

SST displays will have scalers that will show the GPU that it is one display, not reqiring the GPU to invoke the eyefinity setup automagically. Essentailly the two tile displays were made so that you can render 4k over HDMI & DVI connections as they dont have the bandwidth to run 4k monitor as one tile.
 
Update

I have found a Mini DP to Displayport cable (Made by Accell) that supports the correct bandwidth and standard (1.2) to be compatible with a GTX 690.

So yes you can run 4K over a Mini DP cable.

Stop acting like you've just confirmed it, you've had other people telling you it does already.
 
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