Considering buy a VR headset, what to go for?

ArmitageShanks said:
With that in mind, if I had £700 to burn I'd still go for the Vive as it has the most legs going forward - wireless tether, improved headstrap, new prototype controllers (OK, that's more Valve than HTC), and now even an eye-tracking add-on being touted. Hopefully all these improvements will be incorporated into the next version instead of being expensive $200-a-pop add-ons...if HTC don't over-extend themselves and go completely bust (but at least we'll have LG picking up the slack). :cool:
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Do people hate facebook so much? How can you say Vive has the most legs going forward when the Rift has all the things you say coming as well? And it already has the good controllers and the headphones and so doesn't need the improved headstrap.

Seen something the other day on another forum. The wireless adapter for the Vive headset is going to be $250. It's $99 for the headstrap. The batteries last 4 hours on the wireless adapter.

As I said in my previous post, I hope nextgen headsets are completely wire free. Intel's project alloy was demoed at CES, The Rift demonstrated theirs last October. Even HTC got in on the act at CES with senors taped to the outside of the Vive.
 
0h_no_not_again said:
A few things that haven't been covered here yet:

  • The rift has slightly less FoV than the Vive. Your peripheral vision is weighted highly by your brain in figuring out how you're moving, so is relatively important. It plays a decent role in seated experiences (Dirt Rally/Elite/etc) and for roomscale games.
  • The Vive's tracking is easier to set up, more robust and more accurate than the rift tracking. Vive's tracking really shines when you start occluding it. Don't get me wrong though, the rift tracking is good.

I'd probably buy the Rift today due to the price, but the Vive's tracking and FoV makes it the more desirable system for me.

2nd gen is going to be incredible, where I'm backing the 2nd Vive to be the better product purely due to superior tracking... Well, tracking and tweaks to comfort and some fancy new controllers :)
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Yes the Vive has a slightly larger FOV, but after using a Vive for a while i was glad that i had purchased the Rift. The other advantages to the rifts optics outweighed the slightly larger fov and lack of god rays. The Rift just seems clearer, with less SDE, and much larger in focus sweet spot. Neither are perfect and both make compromises, but i definitely prefer the Rifts headset.
 
Sc00p007 said:
Yes the Vive has a slightly larger FOV, but after using a Vive for a while i was glad that i had purchased the Rift. The other advantages to the rifts optics outweighed the slightly larger fov and lack of god rays. The Rift just seems clearer, with less SDE, and much larger in focus sweet spot. Neither are perfect and both make compromises, but i definitely prefer the Rifts headset.
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That's why there is something to be said for trying before you buy. As you say, both make compromises. Some people will notice the SDE more and others will notice the godrays more.
 
Sc00p007 said:
Yes the Vive has a slightly larger FOV, but after using a Vive for a while i was glad that i had purchased the Rift. The other advantages to the rifts optics outweighed the slightly larger fov and lack of god rays. The Rift just seems clearer, with less SDE, and much larger in focus sweet spot. Neither are perfect and both make compromises, but i definitely prefer the Rifts headset.
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Gonna change my opinion to a firm Vive buy.

Was playing Rec Room last night and had 2 guys with Rifts + Touch repeatedly having tracking issues. Both had 3 camera setups.

At the same time I was standing in the corner of my room (w/ Vive), facing a corner without Lighthouse, as one controller was dead and charging via 1.5m USB cable. Didn't lose tracking once. Night and Day.

edit: 5m x 5m room.
 
0h_no_not_again said:
Gonna change my opinion to a firm Vive buy.

Was playing Rec Room last night and had 2 guys with Rifts + Touch repeatedly having tracking issues. Both had 3 camera setups.

At the same time I was standing in the corner of my room (w/ Vive), facing a corner without Lighthouse, as one controller was dead and charging via 1.5m USB cable. Didn't lose tracking once. Night and Day.

edit: 5m x 5m room.
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wow, I have played rec room, rise of the jumbotron multiple times over the last few days with loads of guys that have the Rift and nobody had tracking issues, not once. And some of those guys only had 2 sensor setups. So I am guessing that the guys you played with had their system setup wrong or were running low on batteries, or were playing in too large of area.

Because the Rift tracking is perfect now. Perfect, the only place the Vive has the advantage is in larger areas, bigger than 3mx3m. This has been proved in Quill and other drawing apps where any tracking issues are immediately apparent.
 
melmac said:
Do people hate facebook so much? How can you say Vive has the most legs going forward when the Rift has all the things you say coming as well? And it already has the good controllers and the headphones and so doesn't need the improved headstrap.

Seen something the other day on another forum. The wireless adapter for the Vive headset is going to be $250. It's $99 for the headstrap. The batteries last 4 hours on the wireless adapter.

As I said in my previous post, I hope nextgen headsets are completely wire free. Intel's project alloy was demoed at CES, The Rift demonstrated theirs last October. Even HTC got in on the act at CES with senors taped to the outside of the Vive.
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Let's be clear: Oculus demonstrated a standalone mobile headset prototype, not a PC-powered one. They have announced no plans to improve the existing Rift or release any new PC VR headset to date.

If you buy a Rift + Touch now, that's unfortunately all it will ever be. That's why I say the Vive will have a longer shelf life: HTC are still ploughing money into it.
 
ArmitageShanks said:
Let's be clear: Oculus demonstrated a standalone mobile headset prototype, not a PC-powered one. They have announced no plans to improve the existing Rift or release any new PC VR headset to date.

If you buy a Rift + Touch now, that's unfortunately all it will ever be. That's why I say the Vive will have a longer shelf life: HTC are still ploughing money into it.
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But you say that the Rift is all it can be but that the Vive is going to have a longer shelf life because it has integrated headphones coming, better touch controllers coming and it is getting lighter and that shows HTC are still ploughing money into it. But, why would the Rift need to plough money into these things? It's already light, it already has amazing touch controllers and it already has integrated headphones. They are also developing gloves.

Now about the wireless. sure, the headset demonstrated was new model somewhere between the Gear and the Rift, but, do you honestly think that they won't have wireless for their next top of the line model? All I was shown was that Oculus are working on wireless solutions. They haven't stopped developing for VR.

And yes Vive are coming out with a wireless headset, but, it's still a third party solution, been developed by TPcast. There is a huge delay at the moment as they haven't got FCC approval for North America yet and that could be a few months, how much longer to be released here? And then it's going to cost £200 or more. There are other companies doing wireless devices for both headsets. Sixxa Rivvr is one.

Cost of entry has been the single biggest obstacle to VR. The reduction in price to the Rift and the focus on Content by Oculus leads me to believe that the Rift will be the goto headset for the time being. Just like the Vive was the goto headset last year. e
 
melmac said:
But you say that the Rift is all it can be but that the Vive is going to have a longer shelf life because it has integrated headphones coming, better touch controllers coming and it is getting lighter and that shows HTC are still ploughing money into it. But, why would the Rift need to plough money into these things? It's already light, it already has amazing touch controllers and it already has integrated headphones. They are also developing gloves.
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The gloves won't be for the Rift. All we've seen are some patent diagrams and Zuckerberg playing with some OptiTrack motion capture gloves.
melmac said:
Now about the wireless. sure, the headset demonstrated was new model somewhere between the Gear and the Rift, but, do you honestly think that they won't have wireless for their next top of the line model? All I was shown was that Oculus are working on wireless solutions. They haven't stopped developing for VR.
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They have stated that their wireless solution is at least 5 year away (that was shortly before TPCast announced their solution for the Vive). They have not officially announced any new PC VR headset or what its specs will be (neither have HTC/Valve). What I'm saying is that there hasn't been any wireless announcement for the CV1 (I'm talking about the current Rift and Vive models, not what might or might not come out in a year or two's time).
melmac said:
And yes Vive are coming out with a wireless headset, but, it's still a third party solution, been developed by TPcast. There is a huge delay at the moment as they haven't got FCC approval for North America yet and that could be a few months, how much longer to be released here? And then it's going to cost £200 or more. There are other companies doing wireless devices for both headsets. Sixxa Rivvr is one.
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TPCast is a third party add-on, but it's funded by HTC. HTC are also developing their own in-house solution (either with the TPCast tech or something else...no-one's sure yet and its still effectively vaporware until HTC show something off). TPCast has stated in the past they plan to support the Rift, but so far only the Vive module has been shown and actually sold. As for other devices, we'll have to see how that pans out. I doubt the lack of Ofcom approval is going to stop people ordering it from the US.

melmac said:
Cost of entry has been the single biggest obstacle to VR. The reduction in price to the Rift and the focus on Content by Oculus leads me to believe that the Rift will be the goto headset for the time being. Just like the Vive was the goto headset last year. e
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Strangely I see most of the 2016 content exclusivity drying up and those titles now being release on the Vive. What I wouldn't want to be doing at this point is dropping £500 on a dead-end device.
 
Just different strategies.
Last year Oculus said they would'nt be bringing out any new headset for about 2 years. They said they see 2017 as the year to make VR more affordable and to concentrate on getting the games out. They know the importance of getting more people on board. I feel they have already started on this promise with the full package with about 8 free games being less than 600 now. They are definitely looking at the future as i know they have bought an eye tracking company and been experimenting with wireless (my CV1 even has a wireless adaptor marking inside the headset. So at one point it mustve been considered for cv1 to include this). So i would say Oculus are still ploughing money into VR the same as HTC.
HTC seem to be going the route of add on gadgets for incremental improvements. But could this cause more fragmentation of the market? I already saw similar by the way of Oculus having xbox pads upgraded to touch control. Basically, touch came out meaning people without can't play many of the new games. Meaning they must go out to spend more money on an already expensive gadget. So HTC really have to let people know of everything they are working on, as it is a potential gadget to sell to keep the interest in the more expensive vive. However, i'm not to sure about adding value through peripheral purchases as i remember all the attempts the console market has tried and failed with in the past. People just want the package. Oculus dont need to be announcing future plans quite so much as their strategy is concentrating on pricing/games to get the masses in.

To be honest, i see these two first gen headsets as prototypes. I can't see myself wanting to plough 200 here and 100 there adding peripherals to my headset when i know the biggest upgrade i want for vr is a higher resolution headset. If i had the choice today of a headset with better optics or a headset with better tracking (pucks on my elbows and knees etc), optics wins hands down.

My biggest problem atm with vr is non of my friends are using it. Too expensive. But since the Rift cuts, a couple have jumped on board, and a few others feel the price is nearly "there". So i feel the oculus strategy is better for the start of VR as it is more likely to get people on board.

Anyways, i have given my reasoning why i would recommend Rift in previous posts. But when it comes to which company i prefer? Neither! But i do like Oculus strategy of bringing down the price, because more friends in VR = happier times for me.

£500 dead end device? For me it is indeed. But i would see Vive as a £750 dead end device too. I want better graphics, this means the number 1 upgrade i look forward to and will make me purchase again is going to make both headsets dead end. It's not the tracking, its the screens inside these headsets. Plus the headset is the bulk of the price you pay.
 
Sc00p007 said:
Just different strategies.
Last year Oculus said they would'nt be bringing out any new headset for about 2 years. They said they see 2017 as the year to make VR more affordable and to concentrate on getting the games out. They know the importance of getting more people on board. I feel they have already started on this promise with the full package with about 8 free games being less than 600 now. They are definitely looking at the future as i know they have bought an eye tracking company and been experimenting with wireless (my CV1 even has a wireless adaptor marking inside the headset. So at one point it mustve been considered for cv1 to include this). So i would say Oculus are still ploughing money into VR the same as HTC.
HTC seem to be going the route of add on gadgets for incremental improvements. But could this cause more fragmentation of the market? I already saw similar by the way of Oculus having xbox pads upgraded to touch control. Basically, touch came out meaning people without can't play many of the new games. Meaning they must go out to spend more money on an already expensive gadget. So HTC really have to let people know of everything they are working on, as it is a potential gadget to sell to keep the interest in the more expensive vive. However, i'm not to sure about adding value through peripheral purchases as i remember all the attempts the console market has tried and failed with in the past. People just want the package. Oculus dont need to be announcing future plans quite so much as their strategy is concentrating on pricing/games to get the masses in.

To be honest, i see these two first gen headsets as prototypes. I can't see myself wanting to plough 200 here and 100 there adding peripherals to my headset when i know the biggest upgrade i want for vr is a higher resolution headset. If i had the choice today of a headset with better optics or a headset with better tracking (pucks on my elbows and knees etc), optics wins hands down.

My biggest problem atm with vr is non of my friends are using it. Too expensive. But since the Rift cuts, a couple have jumped on board, and a few others feel the price is nearly "there". So i feel the oculus strategy is better for the start of VR as it is more likely to get people on board.

Anyways, i have given my reasoning why i would recommend Rift in previous posts. But when it comes to which company i prefer? Neither! But i do like Oculus strategy of bringing down the price, because more friends in VR = happier times for me.

£500 dead end device? For me it is indeed. But i would see Vive as a £750 dead end device too. I want better graphics, this means the number 1 upgrade i look forward to and will make me purchase again is going to make both headsets dead end. It's not the tracking, its the screens inside these headsets. Plus the headset is the bulk of the price you pay.
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Great post and says it much better than I would have. I like the last paragraph. It sums up my thoughts exactly, how can you call the Rift a dead end device but not the Vive? Both are first Gen products, both, hopefully they will be replaced by much better headsets and chances are peripherals for this generation will not work with future versions. And if you are to buy all the addons for the Vive it's going to cost a lot more than £750. More like £1100
 
melmac said:
wow, I have played rec room, rise of the jumbotron multiple times over the last few days with loads of guys that have the Rift and nobody had tracking issues, not once. And some of those guys only had 2 sensor setups. So I am guessing that the guys you played with had their system setup wrong or were running low on batteries, or were playing in too large of area.

Because the Rift tracking is perfect now. Perfect, the only place the Vive has the advantage is in larger areas, bigger than 3mx3m. This has been proved in Quill and other drawing apps where any tracking issues are immediately apparent.
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Under ideal circumstances, sure.

Rift tracking is IR Constellation using Computer Vision, a strategy that is highly susceptible to the environment. Rift cameras have a smaller FoV, so you can't really play in the corners of a room. Rift cameras require USB (extension) + processor time. Re-alignment post occlusion is an issue for the Rift as well, mostly due to the outside-in approach with limited Tx encoding.

There are significantly more variables with the Rift tracking that are likely to cause trouble. Simple as that.
 
0h_no_not_again said:
Under ideal circumstances, sure.

Rift tracking is IR Constellation using Computer Vision, a strategy that is highly susceptible to the environment. Rift cameras have a smaller FoV, so you can't really play in the corners of a room. Rift cameras require USB (extension) + processor time. Re-alignment post occlusion is an issue for the Rift as well, mostly due to the outside-in approach with limited Tx encoding.

There are significantly more variables with the Rift tracking that are likely to cause trouble. Simple as that.
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And yet since the 1.12 update tracking has been perfect for most people in areas that are smaller than 3mx3m.

Once you go to larger areas the Vive is better choice.
 
melmac said:
Great post and says it much better than I would have. I like the last paragraph. It sums up my thoughts exactly, how can you call the Rift a dead end device but not the Vive? Both are first Gen products, both, hopefully they will be replaced by much better headsets and chances are peripherals for this generation will not work with future versions. And if you are to buy all the addons for the Vive it's going to cost a lot more than £750. More like £1100
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All I'm saying is that Oculus/FB is not bringing out anything new for the current Rift CV1 - it's at the end of its development cycle and Facebook seem to be moving onto other things. HTC and their partners are continuing to develop and release new features for the current Vive. And yes, each add-on is expensive, but that's new enthusiast tech for you.

As I said in my earlier post, BOTH are likely to be obsolete in a few years - that much is obvious as all technology heads that way with very few exceptions, but I think the first-gen Vive is going to outlast the first-gen Rift by a year or two. Ideally I'd like the next version of the Vive to have all these new bolt-on bits rolled up into a single unit (and higher density screens, now that foveated rendering is slowly becoming a reality). If Facebook come out with a new Rift that has the same (or better) features and a better tracking system, I'd be first in line to buy one.
 
I've tried both extensively - have two friends who own vive and rift respectively. I can safely say that while it is a thrilling and legitimate experience, I'd wait to see how the next gen improves upon the current gen hardware. This is the first proper consumer generation of hardware so they must have had plenty of feedback to tailor the next iteration on. At the end of the day, however, it is your own money.
 
Will wait and see what the reviews say. It's not all roses though, because the screens are only LCD and early tests say that they aren't nearly as good as the Rift or the Vive.

Want to see how good the tracking is also. Yes, it's inside out, but the controllers will only be tracked while in the FOV. Basically the controllers will only be tracked while you are looking at them. I think I would just save my money and get the Rift.

It seems like we are waiting for Gen2 to come out for everything.
 
Controllers that are only tracked if they're in front of the HMD are no good unless the IMUs can still track sufficiently when outside the field of view. Stuff like Raw Data and Space Pirate Trainer require behind-the-back gestures, as do games where you have to reach below to pick things up, unholster a weapon etc...not sure if that's going to fly with these HMDs and controllers, but it will be interesting to see how it develops.
 
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