Soldato
Aren't people saying above they want 2080 Ti performance for £500? On paper the XSX is about a 2080 Super so £500 wouldn't be quite as egregious as we've seen in recent years.
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Console XBOX ONE X Series or pc ?What faster
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Soldato
They are hardware enthusiasts on a tech forum so their idea of what is midrange is based on their hobby and wanting to justify the costliest GPUs they can buy. Its like saying just because Ford make the $500000 GT40,the mainstream Focus/Mondeo needs to scale up to the price to match the GT40. Casio make mainstream and midrange watches under £200,but also make handmade watches in Japan which cost as much as a Rolex. High end pricing does not have an effect on what is considered mainstream/midrange.
High end products have a much higher ceiling in price.
Even Nvidia disagrees with them - the GTX1660,GTX1660 Super and GTX1660TI are all under $300. So your analysis is correct - you can quite clearly see this in the Steam figures where the majority of GPUs are under $350,ie,the mainstream and midrange tiers. So under £300ish.
JPR and Mercury Research actually have figures for what is defined as midrange and enthusiast,and AMD and Nvidia use them both in their marketing slides:
https://www.jonpeddie.com/images/uploads/The_Balance_of_Power_in_Gaming_2019_-_V8.pdf
Midrange is now defined as $150~$350,mainstream as under $150 and high end/performance over $350. Nvidia and AMD actually use JPR/Mercury Research definitions in their own PR slides if you look carefully.
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Soldato
They will charge what they think they can get away with. They can always cut the price later if it is not selling well enough.
As for the consoles for coarse they will be cheaper than the equivalent performing PC when they launch. MS and Sony's business model allows them to sell the hardware to the user pretty much cost price and make their profit on the games and ongoing services.
Soldato
Who is 'they'?
And JPR doesn't agree with him at all; He said midrange was the most popular. It isn't, that would be mainstream.
Soldato
If you buy a console PS5 for the exclusives. The Xbox exclusives will be on PC also.
Soldato
Actually the XSX is twice as fast than the 2080Ti when doing 4K Ray Tracing. It was on the DX12 video few weeks back then they were rendering on 2080Ti at 1440p and XBX at 4K RT scenes.
That is why calculating CU * Speed *2 to get the TFLOPs, represents a very vague number that doesn't count how good the GPU is on things like IPC, VRAM speed, Ray Tracing etc.
LOL. See above.
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If we take the most rudimentary options of measuring RT performance, for XSX "Series X can effectively tap the equivalent of well over 25 TFLOPs of performance while ray tracing." For Turing, that's 28.4 and that's based on boost clocks. As you know game clock is a lot higher so we're looking at 30tf+ when combined.
When looking at machine learning which will also be important going forward, the xbox numbers look like this: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs ""We knew that many inference algorithms need only 8-bit and 4-bit integer positions for weights and the math operations involving those weights comprise the bulk of the performance overhead for those algorithms," says Andrew Goossen. "So we added special hardware support for this specific scenario. The result is that Series X offers 49 TOPS for 8-bit integer operations and 97 TOPS for 4-bit integer operations. Note that the weights are integers, so those are TOPS and not TFLOPs. The net result is that Series X offers unparalleled intelligence for machine learning."
Turing int 4/8 performance for comparison:
Soldato
This eurogamer is an outdated article you posted saying nothing of what I wrote.
Here is the one from DX12 YT.
https://wccftech.com/directx-12-ultimate-mesh-shaders-nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-and-xbox-series-x/
Has the video you need to watch bellow
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Advanced Mesh shaders apply to both the XSX and Turing once DX12 Ultimate is released.
Literally in the video you posted, you can see the relative performance and how well it applies to the 2080ti.
The 2080ti and the XSX are also rendering different scenes so you can only compare performance relative to themselves, not eachother. The 2080ti actually has a better relative drop compared to the XSX but again I wouldn't put much stock into it as they're rendering different scenes.
The gap in performance between the two remains.
What massively puts me off Xbox series X is that all its games release simultaneously on PC, so there's very little reason for me to buy one.
By the end of the year, its PC upgrade time for me, and with both Big Navi and 7nm Nvidia cards coming by then, I'll own a system faster than a 2070S/2080-level Series X.
By the end of the year, its PC upgrade time for me, and with both Big Navi and 7nm Nvidia cards coming by then, I'll own a system faster than a 2070S/2080-level Series X.
you and most upgraders.
I bet 90% of the people hyping up the Xbox will drop the Xbox like a hot potatoe as soon as AMD release a desktop GPU that's faster
Soldato
I think it's going to be the load times on the new consoles that set them above a pc for a good while.
I have ssds but I've never seen performance like has been demonstrated on the next gen consoles. Games without loading screens will be the most significant change and once it becomes the norm then it will soon feel ancient gaming on anything not capable of that.
Soldato
The announced Samsung 980 series is actually as fast (EVO) or faster (Pro by 50% hitting 7.5GB/s or there about).
And several other companies making proper 4.0 M.2s not those re-purposed 3.0 we got with the likes of MP600
(And I own one).
Soldato
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Same. The xbox sounds amazing and I am tempted for a minute, and then I realise they are poor value proposition, as I will always want to have a pc, and there is no point in having both.
Therefore I will get a ps5 on release and a new pc next year, after the consoles have had an impact on the gpu prices.
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Microsoft’s DXstorage being used in the XSX is coming to the PC also and you should see a lot of benefit when it comes in load times for next gen games that are built on it.
Soldato
The announced Samsung 980 series is actually as fast (EVO) or faster (Pro by 50% hitting 7.5GB/s or there about).
And several other companies making proper 4.0 M.2s not those re-purposed 3.0 we got with the likes of MP600
It's going to require motherboard upgrades for everyone too which is a cost in itself. PC will have it soon enough as you guys say. But its gonna take a while to become mainstream in pc gaming sphere.
At least on console everyone is on same hardware. Any pc gaming is gonna differ vastly across different people.
Soldato
Same applies to CPUs & GPUs. I doubt people will buy RDNA2/Ampere GPUs for RT for years to come. They just went from 970 to 1060 just a year ago according to the Steam survey, while we have plenty of people in here telling to others "quad core is fine".
When wrote we getting called "PC peasants" and has merit, people become outraged in here but is true. Both consoles for the first couple of years would be more powerful than 99% of the PCs.
Your argument is ridiculous. Wanna know how many people will buy a Xbox or PS5 in year 1? Less than 15 million. Consoles don't sell much in the first couple years.
There are hundreds of millions of console gamers out there too ya know - that means next gen machines are not available for the masses for years to come. So you can't say that somehow PC gamers are worse, when most console owners will be stuck with a PS4
Nvidia sold more RTX GPU's than that... there are right now more gamers with a RTX 2060 or better than the PS5 will sell in it's entire first year..
If you use PS4 as a comparison, the base PS4 had a gpu equivalent to a 660ti. This cost around £230 with the PS4 launch price at £329 (normal prices not RRP). This works out at roughly 70% of the cost of the console.
If the XSX cost £500, then an equivalent GPU (say 3060) would cost £350 at 70% fraction, thats about the same as the xx60 mid-range costs right now, so actually it should work out as "usual".
I made a pc with 660ti just before ps4 came out and it held up well for about 4 years when i "had to" upgrade to 1060 to keep good 1080p/60fps performance. It looks like its going to turn out exactly the same with 3000 series being really good for the next 3-4 years, but will need to be upgraded at this point.
If the XSX cost £500, then an equivalent GPU (say 3060) would cost £350 at 70% fraction, thats about the same as the xx60 mid-range costs right now, so actually it should work out as "usual".
I made a pc with 660ti just before ps4 came out and it held up well for about 4 years when i "had to" upgrade to 1060 to keep good 1080p/60fps performance. It looks like its going to turn out exactly the same with 3000 series being really good for the next 3-4 years, but will need to be upgraded at this point.