Convicted of a murder they didn't commit

arknor said:
what if your driving home from the pub in your mates car and he's drunk, should you be charged with the murder of the guy crossing the road that he killed? because you were in the car with him and didn't stop him
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That's quite a bit different though, on several levels. Ignoring that that wouldn't be a murder charge anyway, death by dangerous driving I think:

- you weren't the one that put the pedestrian in the way.
- you weren't also drunk driving
- you wouldn't necessarily have known the consequences of your mate driving drunk.
 
arknor said:
what if your driving home from the pub in your mates car and he's drunk, should you be charged with the murder of the guy crossing the road that he killed? because you were in the car with him and didn't stop him
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You're trying too hard and it's not working.
 
cheesyboy said:
I would think that the same result from the more equitable method of convicting for things they actually did would be better in principle.
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Not necessarily with gang stuff, granted this does seem to be a new application of that law.

AFAIK it would have typically been used in the past when a group murders someone and they can't prove who specifically delivered the fatal blow... like if 3 guys all decide they're going to jump some rival gang member, all three take part in chasing him down and attacking him etc.. he gets stabbed in the process and dies then it no longer matters who used the knife that killed him, all 3 are jointly liable. AFAIK in the past, before such a change in the law, they could all plead guilty to assault, ABH etc. and without specific proof re: one individual striking the fatal blow potentially no one gets a murder conviction even if they're known to have collectively committed the murder.

I guess this just takes it a step further - gang vs gang fight, they've turned up there to apparently commit a murder/shootout, a shootout happened and someone was killed, they're all collectively responsible for that even if it was their friend who was shot. It sounds weirder because they haven't found the rival gang members but knowing they'd likely be prosecuted for the same too makes it make sense, simply everyone intentionally involved in that incident is guilty.
 
This joint enterprise law has been around for ages and is quite often completely nutty but in this case I have less than 0 sympathy.
 
arknor said:
strange law though if you're with a mate and you slap a cop who then tazers your mate and he dies do you get charged with murder? if a butterfly in the rainforest flaps it's wing and your nan has a heart attack should we kill it with fire?
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In America, their Felony Murder law, which is similar to Joint Enterprise here (particularly this case), can see accomplices of people killed by cops as being guilty of murder.

Here's an article where police shot a guy in the back as he was running away and the guys in the car with him are charged with murder:

www.buzzfeednews.com

A Police Officer Killed Jacob Harris, But His Unarmed Friends Were Charged With His Murder

A little-known legal theory allows prosecutors to file murder charges against people who are unarmed or not even at the scene when police officers kill somebody.
www.buzzfeednews.com www.buzzfeednews.com
 
Hardly the sort of people we want roaming around society unchecked. Looks like they have all been sent down like a three for the price of one deal. Marvellous
 
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cheesyboy said:
Three guys have been convicted of the murder of their fellow gangmember, who was, the court accepted, killed by a rival gang.

www.bbc.co.uk

Men jailed for murder of friend killed by rival gang in shootout

Jurors heard they fired knowing rivals would shoot back, in what is thought to be a landmark case.
www.bbc.co.uk

Some sort of Joint Enterprise law.

Quite clearly, these guys should go to jail. But surely it should be for the guns and the intent, rather than a murder that was at someone else's hand?!

Horrible law, this.
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Sounds like the felony murder charge in the US. Even if you were sat in the car as the getaway driver and someone kills someone in the bank you can be charged with murder. Personally I don't have an issue with this. They were firing guns on the street, what did they think was going to happen? **** around and find out!

edit: just saw your post above.
 
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