Wow, I didn't expect that. That's interesting.
COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion
- Thread starter ThundyCat
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Yes, but they are doing both: this and a universal vaccine that if successful will work on all current and future variants.
Eh? That's not a paper, that's some guy on twitter quote tweeting some other person who is in turn just showing the results of their tests after several covid infections.
In the paper you linked to earlier it mentions major lymphopenia, that's not the opposite of what I'm talking about!
There was an article by an immunologist from Imperial in the guardian yesterday that I thought was interesting:
Where’s the herd immunity? Our research shows why Covid is still wreaking havoc | Danny Altmann
‘Living with the virus’ is proving much harder than the early vaccine success suggested, says professor of immunology Danny Altmann
www.theguardian.com
Soldato
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a poor T-Cell response ie not as many CD4/8 T-cells being produced by an omicron infection compared to delta infection doesn’t mean your T-Cells have taken a “hit” like you suggestedEh? That's not a paper, that's some guy on twitter quote tweeting some other person who is in turn just showing the results of their tests after several covid infections.
In the paper you linked to earlier it mentions major lymphopenia, that's not the opposite of what I'm talking about!
There was an article by an immunologist from Imperial in the guardian yesterday that I thought was interesting:
Where’s the herd immunity? Our research shows why Covid is still wreaking havoc | Danny Altmann
‘Living with the virus’ is proving much harder than the early vaccine success suggested, says professor of immunology Danny Altmann
It can be though (and perhaps is here, a couple of prior infections, you've taken a hit and your response isn't good at all now) and also major lymphopenia can be that too AFAIK.
Soldato
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Nope, I read a few of those papers and they all suggested that a person that has only had a prior omicron infection produced the same amount of T-Cells to the omicron infection as those that had prior Covid Infection before Omicron, which suggests there is no so called “hit” to the immune system with multiple infections. There are multiple papers out there showing the immune response to omicron infection is not as robust as previous variants be it a naive infection or having previous infection before omicron, but nothing to suggest multiple infections deplete your T-Cells.
I know that your like when people call you out, so we will leave it there unless you can prove otherwise, I ain’t going down the dowie hole with you
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That's a rather unnecessary, it's not like we're discussing politics or something here, what is the major lymphopenia referring to? It's there in the paper you linked to.
Soldato
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In the study lymphopenia was/is present in those with severe Covid19 in ITU “ More specifically, T lympho- cyte response is profoundly altered in severe COVID-19 patients and the presence of an extensive lymphopenia has repeatedly been described as a prominent feature of critically ill COVID-19 patients.” it makes no mention of T-Cell Exhaustion/Depletion through multiple Covid infections, like you suggested originally.
If you actually read the study further down the page, T-Cell response ended up being more robust in the end in those with severe Covid
“We observed that patients with complicated clinical courses leading to long hospital stays developed signifi- cantly better memory T cell response than patients with short clinical courses. The intensity of memory T cell response did not correlate with acute COVID-19 severity as evaluated by severity score at ICU admission (SAPS II, SOFA).”
But isn't lymphopenia where you have lower levels of lymphocytes? (i.e. B cells and T cells)
It seems to be correlated with disease severity too:
Soldato
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See the Edit., as I said I’m not going down the Dowie hole with you
Feeling significantly better today.
It's a very strange illness. Symptoms come and go. I'll feel almost fine at some points. Then it comes back somewhere. Today I feel generally "queasy" and not hungry.
But aches have subsided and the worst symptom, the head congestion, has really dropped away.
If you average over a day every day seems better now.
I'm on day 5, with peak symptoms at day 2.
Taste does seem different. But thankfully not gone! Long covid with no taste sounds horrible!
It's a very strange illness. Symptoms come and go. I'll feel almost fine at some points. Then it comes back somewhere. Today I feel generally "queasy" and not hungry.
But aches have subsided and the worst symptom, the head congestion, has really dropped away.
If you average over a day every day seems better now.
I'm on day 5, with peak symptoms at day 2.
Taste does seem different. But thankfully not gone! Long covid with no taste sounds horrible!
Again, rather unnecessary... and a bit of a cop out you chose to comment on this and I'm not really seeing a good explanation here.
It would be good perhaps if someone medically qualified were to comment as I'm interested to know and it doesn't really require snide comments or someone picking a side like they're arguing about politics or something.
Soldato
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You were suggesting that with each infection you get the more of a hit your T-Cells take (depleting them) I pointed out that wasn’t the case with my immunocompromised wife as her T-Cells were the same post infection as when they were measured almost 2 months earlier, I gave you the evidence that they were the same.
Yes it stands to reason if you were in hospital ITU with a severe Covid infection you could use more of “the body’s supply of antibodies and T-Cells” than a normal person causing temporary lymphopenia because your fighting the infection for longer, but it then turns out you could get a more robust T-Cell memory quite quickly afterwards, as the end of the study says, “We observed that patients with complicated clinical courses leading to long hospital stays developed signifi- cantly better memory T cell response than patients with short clinical courses. The intensity of memory T cell response did not correlate with acute COVID-19 severity as evaluated by severity score at ICU admission (SAPS II, SOFA).”
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Yes but like I said I'm not sure how one individual's case is relevant here, likewise ditto to people making a big deal of that other individual you linked to on twitter. I've seen the comment you're quoting already in the previous post you made, though that other paper and others do suggest t-cell counts taking a hit and AFAIK they're not necessarily quick to recover.
I would be more interested in some opinions from medical experts/immunologists tbh. in particular re: the issue of multiple infections.
lol
I appreciate this is the internet, but an alternative option was "Thanks, I was wrong and didn't know that"
Don't be embarrassed to learn something... it means you're growing as a person
Bit uncalled for. The difference to the layperson is very pedantic, and I'm not going to get too caught up in the details when it isn't necessary for the point I was making: ACE2 found all over the human body, not limited to one organ = SARS-2 can infect and damage multiple areas. Simple stuff. Nobody here cares about the how or why.
You, however, seem to be more concerned about being correct where it literally doesn't matter. I already knew the difference, thank you very much. Move on now.
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Interesting to see a link between the number of times people had Covid and how much fruit n veg they eat.
The friends, family and colleagues who had Covid multiple times generally don’t like much in the world of fruit n veg.
Those who had Covid once or escaped it somehow, eat plenty of fruit n veg.
The friends, family and colleagues who had Covid multiple times generally don’t like much in the world of fruit n veg.
Those who had Covid once or escaped it somehow, eat plenty of fruit n veg.
Not seeing any pattern to it like that with anyone I know, my diet is poor in terms of fruit and veg though I have been boosting vitamin levels, etc. through the pandemic, and I've seemingly avoided it so far.
Is the correlation more to do with attitude to health in general?
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