Soldato
Here’s the thing. So what if it spread it around? We were all going to get it at some point anyway. To think we could beat it by spanking pots and pans every Thursday and following one way systems in the supermarket was just delusional.
COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion
- Thread starter ThundyCat
- Start date
For one it builds in time for medical breakthroughs and understanding - part of the reason why fatalities dropped a lot from what was seen in the earliest days was due to the work of British and Italian doctors collaborating resulting in being able to utilise supplemental oxygen more pre-emptively (earlier than the usual warning signs) and the role steroids could play - the longer it takes for the disease to move through populations the more chance you have of better understanding it and saving lives. Also if it turns out to be the "big one" it means you've bought as much time as possible to implement appropriate measures.
It also avoids strain on the health care system as overwhelmed hospitals mean a lower standard of and/or delayed treatment both for the disease itself and the knock on effect on other medical care/services.
Also one way systems and basic masks work - crowd mobility and density have significant impact on transmission - if you can keep people moving and spaced out it significantly reduces spread - it reduces exposure so that even basic masks can offer significant protection.
(You can call is anecdotal but we had a pretty strict implementation at work - whole building was gridded out into 2m squares, one way systems, strict limits on how many people were allowed in an office at a time, altered shift patterns so that as few people were in the building at the same time as possible - mostly by working longer hours but less days, masks, hand sanitisers and regular cleaning of touch points, etc. etc. there was no evidence of any transmission within the workplace aside from within some groups of friends who were social outside of work and a bit more intimate at work defying the rules a bit. It pretty much knocked everything on its head not just COVID nothing went around while nearby similar businesses which had no or slack measures were getting waves of COVID go around impacting them for 2-4 weeks each time. While some people picked it up individually and even came into work, my boss even called the police on someone who knowingly came into work after exposure to COVID, absolutely nothing went around until measures were relaxed).
All of this is actually pretty elementary and I'm surprised anyone has trouble with it.
I dunno how to find it now, not coming up on a simple Google search.
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Commissario
Did you miss the fact that the Hospitals were running out of staff and spaces for people that were seriously ill just from Covid, utterly ignoring the other reasons why people normally end up on respirators and life support?
I'll spell this out really, really simply.
If your medical service has it's hands full treating one new illness, then what do you do with every other person who needs that care from more "routine" reasons.
Hospitals normally have something like a 1:1 ration (or better) of specially trained nurse per patient on a ventilator, with the more specialist staff working solely with those on ventilators are a lower ration (IE 1 specialist doctor per 4-8).
With Covid in some of the areas that were worst hit they had something like a nurse for 2-4 patients meaning there was no way they could maintain even basic normal preventative care for other issues (bed sores, infections from those bed sores etc as they didn't have the staff to do the moving as often as is required).
The lock downs also slowed the spread enough that the medical community had a chance to find what helped survival rates, and thankfully for what seems to have been a slightly less nasty variant to take over.
We will all die "Eventually" but it's not generally considered good practice to dress in black and play on the M1 at 4am on a winters morning, nor is it generally considered for medical staff to just throw their hands up and say "well Mr Smith over there was going to die sometime, why are we bothering to stop the bleeding from that knife wound".
Or to put it another way, I'm driving my car, something happens and I realise I'm going to hit something, do I just stop trying and let the car hit the brick wall or tree, or do I keep trying to delay going off the road and hopefully hit something a little softer, like the hay pile some farmer left conveniently between the brick wall and the trees.
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Commissario
IIRC there was a big match in Italy, but the more damning one was IIRC the Liverpool Madrid match.
It was hard to get definitive proof because there wasn't a great tracking service (another government failure*), but the conditions in the stadiums and transport were ideal for the spread, and IIRC there were a lot of cases that when tracing was done later had one thing in common, the matches but by that point it was too late (and IIRC the home testing kits didn't come out for a long time after).
There were I think several studies done, but for some strange reason no officially funded ones by the government that decided to delay taking any action until after the big events.
*They decided to start with an IIRC outsourced contract employing people that had largely never done (or organised) infectious disease tracking, meanwhile the likes of every STD clinic/health authority had teams specifically for STD's and the likes of Measles who could have provided the core, and training people for an expanded service (it might not have been as "efficient" as the tech thing that failed, but they could have expanded it very fast),.
There was some tracing of it due to people having a record of visiting, unfortunately after a few years the information is buried now and not easy to find - there is a mention of it here https://www.thesun.ie/news/5243757/...mit-7-cases-traced-to-english-football-match/ but it went on to be traced to ~40 countries not just 7.
Commissario
Aye I think there was an article on The Guardian way back in about mid 2020, and I think even a report for the MP's stated that they believe there was something like at least 30 deaths directly related to it (IE they almost certainly caught it at the match, and died in local hospitals).
From memory we allowed the match to go ahead on the day that it was declared a pandemic, and after Italy had totally stopped football matches.
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Soldato
Ah yes. That would explain the empty and unused Nightingale Hospitals and scores of choreographed NHS dance videos.
Yep they look overwhelmed.
Slow. Clap.
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Soldato
You know what I'm most annoyed at?
That I paid for all this crap through taxation. I paid for dancing nurses. I paid for empty nightingale hospitals. I paid a TV license fee for garbage to be rammed down my throat for 2 years. I paid for a "vaccine" rollout of dangerous, largely useless and untested shots. I paid toward almost a £1 billion spend for government propaganda and fear porn; Bus stop ads, full page ads on the front cover of every newspaper. And now, I'll end up paying for all the vaccine damage claimed through the compensation schemes.
I'm annoyed I paid for it. And I'm annoyed at my fellow man becoming absolute blind sheep surrounding the entire thing.
That I paid for all this crap through taxation. I paid for dancing nurses. I paid for empty nightingale hospitals. I paid a TV license fee for garbage to be rammed down my throat for 2 years. I paid for a "vaccine" rollout of dangerous, largely useless and untested shots. I paid toward almost a £1 billion spend for government propaganda and fear porn; Bus stop ads, full page ads on the front cover of every newspaper. And now, I'll end up paying for all the vaccine damage claimed through the compensation schemes.
I'm annoyed I paid for it. And I'm annoyed at my fellow man becoming absolute blind sheep surrounding the entire thing.
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Commissario
That old nonsense.
The "nightingale" hospitals were a PR exercise come last ditch "dying patient" facility, they had nowhere near enough staff to actually man them in a manner that was conductive to actually saving lives (the big problem for a lot of hospitals turned out not to be beds, but the trained staff). IIRC they were basically somewhere if everything went to hell they'd likely have sent the patients with no chance of survival so that those that had a better chance could still be cared for, as from memory the hospital trusts in the areas they were set up were expected to supply all the staff, and they didn't have enough to cover their own facilities to a safe, let alone normal level.
As for the dancing videos, well done, that old nonsense.
There were parts of the NHS that were not that busy because they didn't have the facilities to deal with covid patients, and wards that were closed because they couldn't safely treat non covid patients but at the same time didn't have the staff to treat covid patients in them (you cannot do any operations without the sort of staff that were being sent do deal with covid patients on ventilators for example)
In case you forgot, several hospitals were actually running out of Oxygen and had to have additional temporary huge liquid oxygen tanks put on site and emergency upgrades to the gas supplies to the wards as they were treating many times the expected number of patients that needed oxygen to survive (consider for a moment how basic a supply of oxygen is, and how bad it is for hospitals to start to run hard against what they can supply to the wards and worse, actually having a supply of it at all).
They were also turning Operating Theatres into covid intensive care units, which automatically puts entire wards out of use because they would normally be dealing with patients recovering from the likes of hip replacements.
Guess what one of the fastest/easiest ways to ensure you don't run out of oxygen is? Yup you take normal non urgent facilities out of use so that the only people that are using oxygen and staff are those that desperately need them to survive, My brother in law had a major operation delayed by IIRC nearly 18 months due to covid partly because they needed to be able to guarantee they had the full staffing and safe space for him to recover, and they needed to reserve that capacity for things like car accidents
As for staff dancing, guess what, people have a lot of ways to cope with stress, and one of the most common ones is for the people to try and have a little "fun", unfortunately during covid a lot of the "traditional" british ways of having "fun" were out, they couldn't go for a meal together, they couldn't do any activity outside of work together, and they certainly couldn't get drunk if they were needed back in the next day.
As for "you paid for them" I suspect you didn't given that many hospital staff were working well past their paid hours, and the likes of these dances that have you so upset were almost certainly done by staff who were either going off shift, going on shift, or were on standby for the next load of cases.
At this point i'd sya you're starting to act like a bit of a stereotype with all the old uninformed nonsense memes and arguments.
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Yes, let's not let them have a bit of a break during a stressful shift.
Slow handclap
Soldato
You know I used to work for the NHS right, for 10 years? Beside the council, I've never known any organisation to be so wasteful, and to employ so many work shy, useless employees.
The hospitals were largely empty. People were arrested for filming and exposing it, remember?
You can't say the NHS was overwhelmed if they have time to choreograph and publish hundreds of dance videos.
I'm sorry, but you are either blind or brainwashed.
The hospitals were largely empty. People were arrested for filming and exposing it, remember?
You can't say the NHS was overwhelmed if they have time to choreograph and publish hundreds of dance videos.
I'm sorry, but you are either blind or brainwashed.
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I'm sure the banging the pots and pans on a Thursday was just to show support for all staff working through covid, so a bit of a miss there I would say.
Soldato
Were you actually working in a hospital or for the NHS, during this supposed period of inactivity?
Thanks, not right all the time now I'm afraid, old and going senile according to some.
Soldato
I worked across multiple sites, acute and primary care in multiple departments (eHealth / IT) and Facilities for a short period.
Were you working for them during covid was the question.
If you were and witnessed some of this inactivity you may have a point
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I don't think the dancing hospital staff were spontaneous, nor was posting it online.
I don't remember anyone dancing at any other time a disaster was happening.
I don't think defending that behaviour looks good either, especially if you have a relative, your husband, wife, child, dying of covid and you turn on the TV news or go on social media to see hospital staff dancing around when people are literally dying of covid in the same building.
I'm sorry but I think it was disgraceful. But I suspect this was promoted by others and the staff might have felt pressured to do it. Also it wasn't only medical staff doing this. I know of videos of prison officers doing it too.
If this wasn't pre-organised then it's collective insanity to think that is appropriate.
If you were working in a highly pressured environment with your patients dying in front of you daily your first thought is you want to get up and dance? I don't know anyone who would do that. They would all want to go rest and/or sleep.
I don't remember anyone dancing at any other time a disaster was happening.
I don't think defending that behaviour looks good either, especially if you have a relative, your husband, wife, child, dying of covid and you turn on the TV news or go on social media to see hospital staff dancing around when people are literally dying of covid in the same building.
I'm sorry but I think it was disgraceful. But I suspect this was promoted by others and the staff might have felt pressured to do it. Also it wasn't only medical staff doing this. I know of videos of prison officers doing it too.
If this wasn't pre-organised then it's collective insanity to think that is appropriate.
If you were working in a highly pressured environment with your patients dying in front of you daily your first thought is you want to get up and dance? I don't know anyone who would do that. They would all want to go rest and/or sleep.
Tiktok has a lot to answer for that's for sure. Werewolf did say it was probably more than likely, non critical staff that were involved.
Soldato
Or … it wasn’t anywhere near as busy as it was made out to be.
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