CPR W3 on Hairworks(Nvidia Game Works)-'the code of this feature cannot be optimized for AMD'

[Gerard]

Auto correct on my phone (at work) and should have said "Ragey".

We had all this all the way back with Crysis 2. AMD had problems with tessellation back then.

Edit:

Thread is getting very ill tempered and I will drop out of it for now.

Not "ragey" at all, just stating the facts.

 

[Dygaza]

Depends who you ask. Some people have been blurting that 8XMSAA was excessive but it doesn't really have a huge performance impact as it's only applied to HairWorks. The amount of tessellation is indeed the main performance culprit, but lowering it also has quite an impact on rendering quality as can be seen in the AMD screenshot example

For me, only difference in game I see is between 8x and 16x, when 16x, 32x and 64x look exactly same. And that's only when I'm still and really trying to find difference. I'm I'm running there's no way to tell difference.


Now I don't claim there ain't difference, as I have problems in stereo sight anyways. But I gladly play the game with 8x as setting as I like how hairworks look on that and performance is good.


But all this banter aside, I really like this game, 65h in timer so far and having lots of fun.

 

[thesmokingman]

Question you have to ask yourself then is why has TressFX had such a minimal uptake. It's up to no-one other than AMD to get their technologies noticed, a fact that gets overlooked rather quickly because it's easier to just 'hate on' the predicament one is left in now.

I just have to wonder if you cannot see it a different way? This is no different than paying vendors to not use an open standard, in this case tressfx. We have to account for the fact that using hairworks is bad for the developer and thier product overall because only half or less of their customers can get a full experience. Basically half of them will be various parts annoyed, disappointed or worse. And yet why would a previously golden-child developer commit to such a deed? When the alternative is to use a freely available hair engine which can be equally optimized for minimal impact on any gpu.

Why would CDPR knowingly impact half their customer base?

When you figure that one out, let me ask, is it AMD's job to pay developers to just to prevent them from making decisions like the inclusion of HW into their code? There's a lot of wrong in the industry, but I don't see how not stooping low is par for the course.

 

[Stanners]

I just have to wonder if you cannot see it a different way? This is no different than paying vendors to not use an open standard, in this case tressfx. We have to account for the fact that using hairworks is bad for the developer and thier product overall because only half or less of their customers can get a full experience. Basically half of them will be various parts annoyed, disappointed or worse. And yet why would a previously golden-child developer commit to such a deed? When the alternative is to use a freely available hair engine which can be equally optimized for minimal impact on any gpu.

Why would CDPR knowingly impact half their customer base?

When you figure that one out, let me ask, is it AMD's job to pay developers to just to prevent them from making decisions like the inclusion of HW into their code? There's a lot of wrong in the industry, but I don't see how not stooping low is par for the course.

As long as the option to turn things on or off is there I do not see it as a problem.

 

[D.P.]

I just have to wonder if you cannot see it a different way? This is no different than paying vendors to not use an open standard, in this case tressfx.

Is there any evidence Nvidia paid CDPR?

We have to account for the fact that using hairworks is bad for the developer and thier product overall because only half or less of their customers can get a full experience. Basically half of them will be various parts annoyed, disappointed or worse.

25% or less of gamers own a AMD card for starters. And how is that any different to a game released with Mantle support that can't be used by 75% of gamers? Unlike Mantle, Gameworks is GPU agnostic so AMD users to get the same benefit with the caveat that if their hardware is not as capable then obviously there is going to be reduced performance. That is AMD's fault, no one elses.

And yet why would a previously golden-child developer commit to such a deed? When the alternative is to use a freely available hair engine which can be equally optimized for minimal impact on any gpu.

Did AMD approach the developers and offer free assistance in integrating tressFX?

Why would CDPR knowingly impact half their customer base?

Because they can improve the experience for 75% of the customer base while 25% of the customer base has a choice to switch on or off hairworks. IF future AMD GPUs have a more capable geometry engine then those future owners can also enjoy the same experience.

When you figure that one out, let me ask, is it AMD's job to pay developers to just to prevent them from making decisions like the inclusion of HW into their code? There's a lot of wrong in the industry, but I don't see how not stooping low is par for the course.

It is AMD's job to work with the developer. IF AMD wanted tressFX included they could have lent their resources to do that. But AMD hardly ever does that, while NVidia do it extensible,y because Nvidia care about the user experience of their customers. Since time immemorial AMD has had terrible developer relations, it is only getting worse with their budget cuts.

 

[bru]

Oh look deja vu almost

Maxwell Tessellation pipeline is 3 times faster than Keplers

Another Nvidia lie and trust you to take their word for it.

Spoiler

Very interesting. Nvidia say its a problem with AMD's tessellation performance.

There is a very easy way to confirm this or call it BS, the R9 285 has 4x the Tessellation throughput of a 290X, if it is a problem with Tessellation performance the 285 will perform significantly better in W3 Hair Works than a 280/290.

Has anyone got one?

When I first read what you said, I thought 4 times the throughput, rubbish there no way its that much better, then I went and looked at a benchmark or two.

Holy cow.

Ok so it's not 4 times better, but the premise is there. that is a significant improvement in tessellation performance.

Yes a 285 might/should very well do better in a hairworks situation, I wonder if Witcher 3 will have a benchmark feature ?

A 285 should show some improvement during a hairworks moment (god that sounds terrible ), this is going to need some testing.

And this all happened back on page 8 of this very thread.

It's not relevant or worthy of a reply, but I did find it rather amusing.

 

[MrMD]

Why is everyone getting hung up on the performance of gameworks on AMD cards? Its always going to perform suboptimally even if nvidia were to be more open with the code.

Surely the fact it runs terrible on all but the most highend nvidia cards should be the focalpoint.This stuff is advertised all across the whole range of cards as a feature but its often unusable for the majorty of users at reasonable framerates.

I have a system capable running Gameworks features at relatively decent frame-rates,but i still think in general its a heap of crap.

 

[Mei]

Why is everyone getting hung up on the performance of gameworks on AMD cards? Its always going to perform suboptimally even if nvidia were to be more open with the code.

Surely the fact it runs terrible on all but the most highend nvidia cards should be the focalpoint.This stuff is advertised all across the whole range of cards as a feature but its often unusable for the majorty of users at reasonable framerates.

I have a system capable running Gameworks features at relatively decent frame-rates,but i still think in general its a heap of crap.

bcos thats not the topic of the thread
i agree tho thats a better topic
im suprised 780 users are not more vocal too, i guess ppl on here just upgrade every month!

 

[Ian Evey]

bcos thats not the topic of the thread
i agree tho thats a better topic
im suprised 780 users are not more vocal too, i guess ppl on here just upgrade every month!

I use a 780 and the games I play run perfectly fine ( not sure if any of them use gameworks or not )

 

[ihatelag]

I use a 780 and the games I play run perfectly fine ( not sure if any of them use gameworks or not )

But what about the silky smooth hair damn it! [/sarcasm]

 

[Phixsator]

I use a 780 and the games I play run perfectly fine ( not sure if any of them use gameworks or not )

As a 780 user myself pretty much every game has been working as i expected with the exception of a few high profile nvidia gameworks titles such as borderlands 2 and 2.5(though 2.5 seems better) which had horrible physx performance even with a dedicated physx card(some areas a lot worse than others) and now witcher 3 which tanks the fps if i want to see rocks on the grounds and denser trees through the foliage option(dont care about hairworks to be honest but that tanks fps as well).

Also in Witcher 3 the game barely responds to any GPU overclocking so i can go from 1100 to 1300 core and see perhaps 2-3 fps which to me suggest a bottleneck somewhere else.

 

[Gregster]

Anyways, regardless of everything....Are you all enjoying the game? This is one of the best games I have played in a long long time and seriously enjoying it (if a little hard at times).

 

[humbug]

Oh look deja vu almost

Spoiler

And this all happened back on page 8 of this very thread.

It's not relevant or worthy of a reply, but I did find it rather amusing.

lol Bru

 

[Dygaza]

Anyways, regardless of everything....Are you all enjoying the game? This is one of the best games I have played in a long long time and seriously enjoying it (if a little hard at times).

Game is fantastic. I will certainly play this through more than once, with different builds. So many quests to do can't decide which way to go. Shame good game doesn't get all the fame it deserves because all these other negativity around it.

 

[Gregster]

Game is fantastic. I will certainly play this through more than once, with different builds. So many quests to do can't decide which way to go. Shame good game doesn't get all the fame it deserves because all these other negativity around it.

I couldn't agree more. So much negativity (and maybe some of it just) has marred a very good game. I have done the first couple of chapters and now level 8 but when I complete it, I will be doing it again, as I have missed a few quests, which you can't return to (which isn't a bad thing).

 

[bru]

Anyways, regardless of everything....Are you all enjoying the game? This is one of the best games I have played in a long long time and seriously enjoying it (if a little hard at times).

Well my son has got it now, and its running ok on his i3 with a 750ti. The resolution slider does indeed go all the way down to 1024*768 so the minimum specs are just a bit of a joke, hell I reckon it will even run on the wife's Q6600 with an NVidia 260 in it.
My self, I've played it for 5 minutes then got interrupted I haven't decided to back to it yet.

 

[savagesam117]

Greg will you/have you done a review on it? I'm really tempted to get it. Damn you AMD for no hair works I'm not sure if it's my kind of game, horses and swords but I never really give these games a chance. I was watching my brother play it and it looks gorgeous and seems to play well, he won't let me have a go and ruin his game

 

[Gregster]

Greg will you/have you done a review on it? I'm really tempted to get it. Damn you AMD for no hair works I'm not sure if it's my kind of game, horses and swords but I never really give these games a chance. I was watching my brother play it and it looks gorgeous and seems to play well, he won't let me have a go and ruin his game

I certainly have

Ohhh and you missed my Giveaway I had a copy to give away on this review and 3 copies that NVidia kindly gave me to give away for my 970 review.

 

[savagesam117]

Ahh man, that sucks! I never win anything anyway so I wouldn't have had a chance!

I'm glad to see there's a good set of tutorials and guides at the start. I think I will get this when I get paid, I need a game that will see me for a long time that I've never played.

You use a controller!?

 

[Orangey]

Anyways, regardless of everything....Are you all enjoying the game? This is one of the best games I have played in a long long time and seriously enjoying it (if a little hard at times).

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18485613