CPR W3 on Hairworks(Nvidia Game Works)-'the code of this feature cannot be optimized for AMD'

layte · 24 May 2015 at 19:23

Mei said:
lol but it is gamers losing out, im not sure this mentality
people seeing AMD as crybabies/lazy or basically the judean people's front ^^;

it doesnt matter if you like AMD or not, if you think they are doing a good job or not, its bad for gamers that developers have to slap something they have little control of ontop of their game because of money

i could go further but i think its only going to get the usual troll replies on here anyway so hah!

SO what you are saying is that developers should reinvent the wheel each and every time? Many, many games have middleware that the developers don't have source access to. I'm bewildered why people think this is a new thing.

Mei · 24 May 2015 at 19:43

layte said:
SO what you are saying is that developers should reinvent the wheel each and every time? Many, many games have middleware that the developers don't have source access to. I'm bewildered why people think this is a new thing.

deliberately obtuse?
hardly the same as a hardware manufacture supplying middleware who doesnt have a vested interest in making it run as good as it possibly can

having source code doesnt mean they have to reinvent the wheel when making a game!? it means they have freedom to optimize it and not have their hard work compromised from something outside their control

maybe you can explain how not giving developers any access to sourcecode is a good thing?? that id like to hear

thebennyboy · 24 May 2015 at 20:09

My FPS with gameworks turned on is astonishing. My FPS HALVES when i turn it on.

LoadsaMoney · 24 May 2015 at 20:23

I can't see that happening either, theres no need for TressFx to be added at all.

Nexus18 · 24 May 2015 at 20:27

Won't happen although it would be nice to see the performance differences as well as which one looks better...

layte · 24 May 2015 at 21:06

Mei said:
deliberately obtuse?
hardly the same as a hardware manufacture supplying middleware who doesnt have a vested interest in making it run as good as it possibly can

having source code doesnt mean they have to reinvent the wheel when making a game!? it means they have freedom to optimize it and not have their hard work compromised from something outside their control

maybe you can explain how not giving developers any access to sourcecode is a good thing?? that id like to hear

Developers do get access to the source code. They just cant give it to AMD, as for some strange reason NV don't want to give away their hard work to their competitor.

In a perfect world developers would have the time, money and resources to do everything themselves, but they don't and Gameworks gives them almost instant access to a number of very sophisticated graphical effects for very little effort. Hopefully AMD's Openworks will be more than a PR troll.

fs123 · 24 May 2015 at 21:09

thebennyboy said:
My FPS with gameworks turned on is astonishing. My FPS HALVES when i turn it on.

If you turn down the tesselation in CCC to 16X it only drops about 10fps. My setup is about same as yours and I can get 40fps average with Hairworks (Tess=16X) and Foliage and shadows turned down to High, single card since crossfire doesn't work yet.

Orangey · 24 May 2015 at 21:11

layte said:
Not with 618 signatures in 2 days, no.

Maybe if AMD had offered up some engineering assistance way back things would be different, instead they did nothing then cried when their competitor stepped up to the plate. This is the second big PC release in a row where AMD couldn't be bothered to work with the developer, and when that shows in the end product instead of holding up their hands they send out the PR man to either spin it or just outright lie.

Every ****ing game should not require IHVs to hold the hands of programmers. How about they earn their salaries. Just because NV have spare cash to throw around right now from their warchest built with dirty tricks doesn't make them the darling of gamers. We've seen what happens when NV get involved anyway, every game they get their greasy fingers in goes to ****.

layte · 24 May 2015 at 21:14

It seems to me that some people would rather nobody has access to some graphical niceties just because they don't run too well on their own system. It's all very petty.

GoogalyMoogaly · 24 May 2015 at 21:19

Mei said:
lol but it is gamers losing out, im not sure this mentality
people seeing AMD as crybabies/lazy or basically the judean people's front ^^;

it doesnt matter if you like AMD or not, if you think they are doing a good job or not, its bad for gamers that developers have to slap something they have little control of ontop of their game because of money

i could go further but i think its only going to get the usual troll replies on here anyway so hah!

layte said:
SO what you are saying is that developers should reinvent the wheel each and every time? Many, many games have middleware that the developers don't have source access to. I'm bewildered why people think this is a new thing.

Like DirectX for example?
Developers get little control over that but they still use it. They could write their own API, like the Khronos group did with OpenGL or AMD did with Mantle (i.e. it doesn't just have to be Microsoft that writes the API).

I don't think these 3rd party things are used because of money, well, except in the time saved from having to pay your developers to write that same piece of software, and bug fix it and maintain it and improve it.

Mei · 24 May 2015 at 21:34

layte said:
Developers do get access to the source code. They just cant give it to AMD, as for some strange reason NV don't want to give away their hard work to their competitor.

In a perfect world developers would have the time, money and resources to do everything themselves, but they don't and Gameworks gives them almost instant access to a number of very sophisticated graphical effects for very little effort. Hopefully AMD's Openworks will be more than a PR troll.

no i think you are wrong
from all ive heard and read developers get pre-built packages and no access to source code, if you know otherwise please share and ill shutup!

and im soooo bored of people using this as a nvidia v's amd fanboi thing, its really pathetic

Gerard · 24 May 2015 at 21:43

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Like DirectX for example?
Developers get little control over that but they still use it. They could write their own API, like the Khronos group did with OpenGL or AMD did with Mantle (i.e. it doesn't just have to be Microsoft that writes the API).

How many developers do you think actually have the resources to write their own api? The vast majority wouldn't even throw their resources behind their own engine instead licensing out other engines and adjusting it to their needs. Good example the cod series, that franchise has raked in billions yet still uses the same crusty dog turd of an engine with the odd tweak here and there.

Direct x is pretty much the standard for games if the developers like it or not, even opengl games are very occasional things these days.

Orangey · 24 May 2015 at 21:45

overtess + 8XMSAA on each strand, tesselating single pixels, why would a world-class developer do something like this? then you hear NV forced Hairworks in with 1 month to launch, a time when a project is supposed to be in feature-freeze, obviously NV are no friend to developers or gamers.

Kaynar · 24 May 2015 at 21:47

HairWorks doesnt work on my nVidia Titan either, it kills the FPS by 30% alone.

Its not a question of optimising it for AMD, its broken for nVidia also...

Kaapstad · 24 May 2015 at 21:59

Am I the only one who thinks that the hair effects look total rubbish ?

See pic below.

Gerard · 24 May 2015 at 22:05

Kaapstad said:
Am I the only one who thinks that the hair effects look total rubbish ?

See pic below.

Meh, at best. Was never a fan of these hair gimmicks from amd or nvidia.

mmj_uk · 24 May 2015 at 22:08

Orangey said:
Every ****ing game should not require IHVs to hold the hands of programmers. How about they earn their salaries. Just because NV have spare cash to throw around right now from their warchest built with dirty tricks doesn't make them the darling of gamers. We've seen what happens when NV get involved anyway, every game they get their greasy fingers in goes to ****.

In reality it does require IHVs to hold the hands of programmers though so it's high time AMD stepped up to the plate for their customers, just as ATI felt the need to with Get in the Game. If AMD continues to conduct business with their "the developers will do everything for us" mentality then they are going to continue to struggle with game compatiblity and pushing their own middleware.

Mei · 24 May 2015 at 22:11

Kaynar said:
HairWorks doesnt work on my nVidia Titan either, it kills the FPS by 30% alone.

Its not a question of optimising it for AMD, its broken for nVidia also...

the way i see it its going to be a bigger problem for nvidia users in the long run than it will amd, well its bad for the pc full stop, if you have 80% market share and you want more sales where do they come from? mostly from your existing customers

if they have big titles that run their code they can manipulate how well these games run on different cards
there should be a stink kicked up about it, maybe they wont go as far as they otherwise would have

i just think its a dangerous thing to support
giving any company that much power is a bad idea lol

R63 · 24 May 2015 at 22:14

Aurhinius said:
Nvida announced on the geforce forum that they found some issues with the witchers 3 and kepler cards and are working on it. They have not said though.
"
We discovered a couple of issues in regards to Kepler GPUs and are working on driver updates."

Just wanted to jump in and re-enforce this. I'll let you guys know of any updates.

Gerard · 24 May 2015 at 22:18

Personally i think gpu vendors should be JUST that.

I understand why theyre pushing different effects as in the past game devs seemed reluctant to implement anything new. I remember ati showing off truform and that was at a time where models were pretty angular and implemented properly it could make them rounder and better looking, essentially a more primitive form of tessellation but it never went anywhere.

Nvidia do seem more proactive in that respect.