CPU for Plex Media Server? (4k transcoding)

[voidshatter]

If we are suddenly allowing for APUs and GPUs then older generation AMD APUs would perform well as they actually have powerful IGPs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Coding_Engine

Since @voidshatter will suddenly lead you to believe Intel Quicksync is amazing.

Yes, it's all of a sudden since I asked the question 3 days ago. Care to share a link about compatibility with VP9 and VP9 10-bit?

 

[voidshatter]

Haha, pick the one thing it current doesn't support. Nice.

What VP9 videos do you transcode exactly?

I don't know, just navigating options for the latest. I suppose VP9 is currently YouTube's standard? Right click on these 8k videos, then click "Stats for nerds". I suppose it's VP9 for most web browsers. Since Kaby Lake's IGP just recently decided to support it, I suppose it's important?

 

[voidshatter]

At no point in this thread have you shown interest in VP9 until you saw on wikipedia that AMD doesn't support it (although that sentence does say as of 2015).

Whilst I know Google uses VP9, you once again probably searched and noticed Youtube uses it.

VP9 is a possible 4K format but doean't appear to be gaining traction commercially or in the encoding community.

Nope. VP9 happens to be the latest in the Quick Sync table. That's why I asked whether my spare GTX980 can support it or not. It's just my instinct to question whether old AMD products can support it, since Kaby Lake just recently decided to support it.

 

[voidshatter]

unless you want to play VP9 video over Plex or Emby

Interesting... I'm currently testing Plex's transcoding of the 8k video above (in VP9), and will also try Emby. Obviously the underpowered ARM-based CPU isn't going to do it in real-time.

 

[voidshatter]

Just added to my library and optimized for Mobile as you requested. it took 2 mins and 22 seconds from start to finish.

Thanks! That's impressive! The video itself is 4k 10-bit at 120fps for 1 min 32 secs. If you can transcode within 2 mins 22 secs then it means your rig can really transcode normal 4k videos in real-time!

I have looked into the details of the file, and it appears that the codec is MPEG4/AVC. Perhaps it's really the IGP kicking in, since it's compatible with MPEG4/AVC? If it was an E3-1230 v3 instead, perhaps it would make a difference?

Spoiler: Media Information for the test file

\\DS2015xs\General\Downloads\HDTV\???120fpsOP\[VCB-S]Toaru Kagaku no Railgun II[NCOP1][Hi10p_2160p][120fps][BDRip][x264_flac].mkv
   General
      Unique ID : 170444920328421477628814099671400301311 (0x803A7F623FE7AD458159165DF403C2FF)
      Complete name : \\DS2015xs\General\Downloads\HDTV\???120fpsOP\[VCB-S]Toaru Kagaku no Railgun II[NCOP1][Hi10p_2160p][120fps][BDRip][x264_flac].mkv
      Format : Matroska
      Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
      File size : 294 MiB
      Duration : 1mn 32s
      Overall bit rate mode : Variable
      Overall bit rate : 26.8 Mbps
      Encoded date : UTC 2013-08-17 14:51:57
      Writing application : mkvmerge v6.3.0 ('You can't stop me!') built on Jun 28 2013 20:09:41
      Writing library : libebml v1.3.0 + libmatroska v1.4.0
   Video #1
      ID : 1
      Format : AVC
      Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
      Format profile : High [email protected]
      Format settings, CABAC : Yes
      Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
      Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
      Width : 3 840 pixels
      Height : 2 160 pixels
      Display aspect ratio : 16:9
      Frame rate mode : Variable
      Original frame rate : 119.880 fps
      Color space : YUV
      Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
      Bit depth : 10 bits
      Scan type : Progressive
      Writing library : x264 core 136 r2348+704+51 d1baef6 tMod [10-bit@4:2:0 X86_64]
      Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / fade_compensate=0.00 / psy_rd=0.60:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=48 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / fgo=0 / bframes=10 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=infinite / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=20.0000 / qcomp=0.70 / qpmin=0:0:0 / qpmax=81:81:81 / qpstep=5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=3:0.80 / aq-sensitivity=10.00 / aq-factor=1.00:1.00:1.00 / aq2=0 / aq3=0
      Language : English
      Default : Yes
      Forced : No
      Color primaries : BT.709
      Transfer characteristics : BT.709
      Matrix coefficients : BT.709
   Audio #2
      ID : 2
      Format : FLAC
      Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
      Codec ID : A_FLAC
      Duration : 1mn 32s
      Bit rate mode : Variable
      Channel(s) : 2 channels
      Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
      Bit depth : 16 bits
      Writing library : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-09-17)
      Language : Japanese
      Default : Yes
      Forced : No

 

[voidshatter]

My server is a Lenovo ts140 with a Xeon E3-1225v3 and 8gb ECC ram. Running xpenology directly on the machine.

I'm getting more confused... This Xpenology thing... You can turn any DIY computer into a Synology-like NAS???

 

[voidshatter]

Correct you can install synology OS onto any hardware although it runs better on Intel based products.

Don't they limit the functions (e.g. VideoStation transcoding) if they detect the MAC addresses/serial number to be not that legit?

On a Ryzen 1700, these videos in Edge has 15-20% CPU usage and upwards of 60-70% in chrome. Chrome is rubbish at playing them.

Holy crap you just refreshed my knowledge - my dual core ultra-thin laptop can now play 8k videos without stuttering, just because you persuaded me to try Edge...

I am running a R7 1700 at 3.6Ghz on all cores

This now looks tempting again! Thanks for posting and it appears that I should still take a serious consideration of the Ryzen 1700. Now I just need to figure out how to get one with good overclockability so that I can perhaps undervolt it for passive fanless cooling.

 

[voidshatter]

To note, hardware transcoding has a very noticeable reduction is visual quality. Software transcoding is, if not, almost identical.

Totally agreed - software transcoding is way more flexible and does not depend on format/codec support that much.

Just in case you missed it, I just posted above your requested test

I've just noticed it - many thanks for testing and it's very impressive time! Just a few more questions if you don't mind:

a) Are you absolutely sure that Plex has never used your GTX 1070 in stealth for any kind of hardware acceleration for the transcoding?

b) If I was to pick Crucial 32GB Kit (2x 16GB) DDR4-2400 ECC UDIMM VLP, will this significantly affect the transcoding performance, since Ryzen's performance depends so much on fast DIMMs such like 3400C16 or 3200C14?

c) Any suggestions for how to obtain a gem for undervolting whist maintaining the stock frequencies (or 3.6GHz on all cores, if that's required for 4k transcoding of some strange formats)?

 

[voidshatter]

A) Zero help from the GPU, see GPU utilisation below.

B) 2400 to 3200 will see hardly any improvements over transcoding.

EDIT: changed my RAM to 2400 from 3200Mhz with no visible impact to performance. If moving from 3.6Ghz to 2.5Ghz didnt really hit performance then that RAM speed adjustment won't either.

C) You don't need a gem, to put it into perspective I quickly dropped the CPU clocks to 2.5Ghz on all cores which is waaayyyy below stock clocks as you can see from Task Manager in the below screen grab and it is handling 4k transcoding with ease, to the point it is even throttling the transcode. Sub 2Ghz would proberly transcode 4k fine, 16 threads is nothing to be sniffed at.

Below, I even did your video test on 2.5Ghz, finished in 1 min 12 sec.

It is even settling encoding at about 1.7x (below) hitting 2.4x and 1.4x jumping.

Don't underestimate the 1700 at these workloads. I would be surprised if the R5 1600 would handle 4k with ease too whilst sipping so little power.

Looking to get the following parts hoping for a fanless media server. Not sure whether it'll work but you are giving me much hope to control the TDP well below 50W! I'll need a gem as good as I can get so I can undervolt as much I can. Since it's a fanless system, I'll need all the undervolting headroom I can get!

The plan is to get the rig up and running Linux without a graphics card (well maybe install the OS with a graphics card) then plug it to the router and only use SSH to control it. In the future maybe I'll slot in an R9 nano (or Vega 64 nano if it will exist/edit: just released), but that would violate the fanless criteria.

I'm a bit worried about the motherboard - the 8-pin location is crap and would require customised replacement cable. I'm also not sure whether the location of the CPU socket would cause any issues with the relatively big cooler in a small case. Will this motherboard work well with Ryzen 1700 for undervolting purposes?

 

[voidshatter]

Yes and what would you use for setup?...

Maybe a spare 980. Then unplug it abd use it
As per the title of this thread says

 

[voidshatter]

^ I contacted ASRock's tech support, and got conflicting information regarding the Fatal1ty X370 Gaming-ITX/ac motherboard.

Yes, a system with this motherboard, RAM and a compatible CPU can also boot without any GPU/iGPU.

I have done a quick test with BIOS 3.00 default settings and a Windows 10 installation. With the Windows start sound enabled I could hear the system could boot into Windows.

Not sure how that works with Debian.

The booting will take a little bit longer than usual, because the motherboard/UEFI will try to detect a graphics card.

If you connect a chassis speaker to the 4-pin speaker header on the motherboard, then you can hear 5 beeps during bootup, indicating a problem related to graphics. But it will still continue to boot.

Kind regards,

ASRock Support

 

[voidshatter]

Even today , I just dont see the point in not having a gfx / igp available

I know its possible to run a lot of OS's without one, and just use a remote system over ip but when there is an issue its 10 times easier resolving on the system itself, and SO much less bother

An integrated graphics processor makes sense as long as it can be shut down without consuming power when it's not being used. It would make debugging and maintenance a lot easier when it's necessary.

A dedicated graphics card does not fit well in the server since it generates additional heat and may affect the fanless purpose. Any system with any fan would require vacuum cleaning from time to time. A fanless system can be left alone for a long period of time without cleaning. Think about a typical router running on passive cooling only.

Since I want my Plex media server to be set and forgotten, without the need of regular reboot (except critical security fixes of kernel), I would pretty much prefer to have ECC memory installed. At the moment it's either the Ryzen 1700, or wait for the low voltage version of 6-core Xeon in Coffee Lake architecture (for the advantage of having an iGPU).

 

[voidshatter]

I am not sure about power usage of discrete GPUs vs IGPs when near-idle, but there are plenty of budget fanless GPUs out there. I have one in my HTPC.

It blocks one side of ventilation of the Lian-Li Q34 case, if this is an excuse at all... I prefer to keep things as simple as possible to minimise uncertainty. Besides, who knows whether the PCI-E slot will be used for something else or not (though I prefer to keep it empty)