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CPU performance decrease?

pretty significant drop when comparing my old fritz benchies with this
The 4.5GHz Fritz results are 9.8% faster which doesn't help corroborate your initial claim of performance decrease? . . at least it seems your CPU crunches faster at the higher frequency which is your main concern . . . I'm not that familiar with Vantage CPU benchmark and therefore don't know if 500 points is a lot *or* a little! :D

Can you explain that bit about the NBCC? Always looking to expand my knowledge :)
A quick brute force explanation would be that lowering the LGA775 CPU multi from its default overclocks what you think is the FSB, although its actually called the NBCC (Northbridge Core Clock) which is in fact a processor called the Northbridge and acts in a similar way to how you understand a regular processor i.e higher frequency = faster . . . and the faster it gets the more volts (vNB) it needs and the hotter it runs . . .

p45sm.jpg

"A Veteran P45 Express Northbridge Chip with heatsink removed . . . . PIII Coppermine anyone?"

Most LGA775 clockers have a good enough understanding of what FSB does but few of them have the knowledge that the FSB you see in CPU-z really only relates to working out the Processor MHz and memory speed through the use of memory multipliers and doesn't really relate to the true system "Northbridge" frequency and the way that effects system bandwidth! :)

Using your E8400 as an example, lets say we set it at 9x400=3600MHz and I asked what is the FSB? . . . most people would say 400MHz which would be correct:
9400.gif



now lets say we lowered the CPU multi from [x9] to [x6] and again I asked what is the FSB? . . . most people would say 400MHz which would be incorrect? . . . . the correct answer would be 600MHz :eek:

6400.gif


In the two examples given above we have *increased* the Bus Bandwidth from 12.5GB/s to 18.75GB/s which is a mighty 50% gain just by lowering the CPU multi! :eek:

To work the NBCC speed out you take the native CPU multi and divide it by the set CPU multi, you then take the resulting figure and multiply it by the set FSB to work out what is the actual NBCC frequency . . . using the two E8400 examples above:

  • 9/9=1
  • 1x400=400 MHz-NBCC

  • 9/6=1.5
  • 1.5x400=600 MHz-NBCC
This system ignores the half CPU multipliers and always rounds down, so [x8.5] is calculated as [x8] and the only exception to this rule is the eXtreme-Edition Processors that count as native multi no matter what you set.

NBCC MHz determines the speed of the data transfers between the CPU and the System Memory so its worth understanding if you want maximum performance, most advanced LGA775 tweakers will also *not* run their memory [1:1] sync and instead use a Memory-Multiplier along with a more conservative set FSB and a knowledge of NBCC and tRD (aka Performance Level) to speed up the data transfers!

To sum up, on the LGA775 platform factor in a lower CPU multi combined with an upward memory divider for best performance! :cool:
 
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Great post Big.Wayne, I'm sure that clarifies it for a lot of people, including me.

You mention eXtreme edition processors, they don't alter the perceived multi, how does that work? Is that anything to do with unlocked multipliers or is that something else entirely?
 
That's excellent, I always wondered how fsb speeds affected performance, and I certainly learnt something new there: exactly the reason I frequent this forum!

So, assuming my board can handle it without frying my NB, I would want a higher fsb (to compensate for lower cpu multi), lower cpu multi, and dram divider that wasn't 1:1. Or conversely if I felt my NB was a cause of instability, I would want to raise the cpu multi, lower the fsb setting, and aim for a 1:1 ram divider to relieve stress on the NB?

As for the drop in the vantage cpu score: at the same clock (4.5GHz), I experienced approximately a 7% drop over the course of about 6 months. I'd attribute that to a poorly made synthetic benchmark and varying external conditions, but the drop seemed so consistent, a hundred or two points (from 8800 total) every month or two, never any spikes. That was what confused me. I can only guess it had to do with system instability caused by degredation, but as you can tell, I only know the basics of "how" but not "why".
 
Sounds silly, but additional background processes? It'd only really be a fair test if you reinstalled the OS and same drivers etc every time. Pretty hard to reproduce, though your reduction is fairly substantial.
 
You mention eXtreme edition processors
I only mentioned them because they have an unlocked multi and don't use the NBCC law that applies to most LGA775 chips . . . so an eXtreme chip will always run the NBCC at the same speed as the FSB . . .

I can only guess it had to do with system instability caused by degredation
I'm not a great believer in this chip "degredation" theory that spread across the interweb like a bad chinese whisper! :p . . . at least I can't prove it either way but I ran several LGA775 chips over the course of a few years and never ran into this issue myself . . . having said that I did experience symptoms on a system that made me think that perhaps the chip had weakened . . . funnily enough that was also an E8400 that I was trying to get to 4.5GHz but couldn't get it fully Prime stable so gave up and backed it down to 4.25GHz which had previously run fine but after spending a week or two running it at 4.5GHz with heaps of vCore I could no longer get the system stable! :confused:

Took me a while to figure it out but what had actually happened was I had *Borked* the O/S by running it on an unstable 4.5GHz overclock for a week or two which had caused "degredation" of the O/S, froze, crashed and rebooted even at 4.0GHz and lower . . . . It wasn't until I reset the BIOS back to stock and still ran into weird system glitches that I finally realised I had either broken the chip *or* the O/S . . . so I recovered the virgin O/S install from a backup and everything was fixed! . . . . whacked it back to 4.25GHz it worked flawlessly!

I wonder if your O/S has degraded? . . . is that 4.5GHz clock prime stable? . . . can you backup your current O/S and install a fresh copy to see if everything speeds up again?
 
Well, it WAS stable. Initially I made sure it was rock solid, 5 hrs orthos stable and 20 runs of LinX (temps got pretty toasty on that, but never over 81C), all without error and with pretty high ambient temps so I hoped it'd survive summer. I did find a couple months ago that it had somehow lost stability so had to up vcore a notch to make it LinX stable, and this time I wasn't able to get it stable at 4.5GHz without going beyong my comfort zone so dropped down to 4.25GHz, which is stable on both LinX and orthos (only ran for 2 hrs before getting bored though). I may do a backup of my os and see how that goes, sounds like a likely cause for the benchmark drops.
 
Wayne, if you look at the FSB and multiplier, when set to 6x Sandra is reading it wrongly as 4x600, not 6x400, the FSB is indeed only 400MHz.
 
Justintime, I think you are mistaking the quad-pumped (x4) System-Bus with the [x6] CPU multi, Sandra is correct in as much as its showing the frequency of the Northbridge (NBCC).
 
Nice Post Big.Wayne.

My processor currently runs at 7*500fsb = 3500Mhz which means:
8/7*500=570 trueFSB. My memory is running 1:1 sync atm - so if I adjust to 8:7 then it will yield the best performance which would be the equivalent to 1:1 if I was using the 8 multi.

The highest multi on my CPU is 8.
 
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Nice Post Big.Wayne.

My processor currently runs at 7*500fsb = 3500Mhz which means:
8/7*500=570 trueFSB. My memory is running 1:1 sync atm - so if I adjust to 8:7 then it will yield the best performance which would be the equivalent to 1:1 if I was using the 8 multi.

The highest multi on my CPU is 8.

From what I understand from Wayne's post, yes. Of course, this means your NB will run hotter, but should provide more bandwidth.
 
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