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CPU Upgrade for gaming

Objectivity means nothing if you use atypical test settings. Arbitrarily deciding to test at settings nobody uses proves nothing. That’s like testing the 0-60 acceleration of a car after removing everything inside but the drivers seat.

We keep being told these settings show “future” potential but they really don’t. Because each new gen of game gets more extreme graphical settings that render CPU performance a distant second to GPU performance.
 
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Objectivity means nothing if you use atypical test settings. Arbitrarily deciding to test at settings nobody uses proves nothing. That’s like testing the 0-60 acceleration of a car after removing everything inside but the drivers seat.

Nothing about it is arbitrary and no, it's not the same as removing everything but the driver's seat. It's like testing 2 cars against each other using the same environmental variables to make the test fair e.g., making sure that the review is done at the same environmental temperature, on the same road and with the same fuel and so on.

Reviewers go to great lengths to explain why they review products the way they do and it makes sense given what they are trying to achieve.

We keep being told these settings show “future” potential but they really don’t. Because each new gen of game gets more extreme graphical settings that render CPU performance a distant second to GPU performance. 4 years ago the 2080Ti was hailed as a 4K monster. Now it’s barely adequate because game engines move on.

Now you're mixing up the review looking to find the fastest product in the group of options versus how the industry has moved to using the increase in graphical and CPU processing power to offer gamers better-looking games.

Reviewing a graphics card's ability to render games at 4K and reviewing the fastest CPU aren't the same test and not the point of this discussion, you're just moving the goal posts to suit your argument and even as per your argument, the 7900X3D would be a poor choice for 4K gaming because of the move to higher fidelity games and the same would be said for any last gen high-end graphics card like the 1080 ti, 980 ti, 8800 Ultra and so on.

The 7900X3D is too expensive for the gaming and productivity performance that it offers relative to the 7800X3D which is £100 cheaper. The 7900 non X3D is often faster in productivity results because it runs at the higher boost clock and is £50 (ish) cheaper so you're sort of in a halfway-house situation where you don't get the benefits of the many many cores of the 7950 and you still have a dual CCD using 6 cores per CCD design which isn't great for gaming when it adds a latency penalty and 8 cores are now very good for games and is becoming far more common place (in both consoles and just general gaming systems).

I'm going to also argue the point that 6 cores might not be enough for future modern gaming in the same way the 4 cores have become a bottleneck on even 4K high-fidelity games (your 1% lows will become very noticeable gaming on a 4 core 8 thread CPU but your average frame rate might appear good) so yeah, you can sarcastically say "future" potential but there's enough evidence to say that even a 6 core CPU will become a pretty serious bottleneck in the long run given the way tech evolves.

Thank god you don't do tech reviews. Seriously. I don't think you understand anything about how reviews are conducted to make sure that it's an objective review and just want to confirm your choice.

OP, the 5800X3D would be the best drop-in upgrade but if you wanted the best whole system upgrade, the 7800X3D is extremely fast at gaming, well-priced and good enough in productivity to work very well for your needs.
 
You go on thinking those pointless low res low setting CPU reviews with a 4090 mean anything for high end VR sim gaming like the OP specified. With any decent CPU from a 5800X3D up, the OPs 4080 will be a bigger bottleneck in MSFS than his CPU at VR gaming.

I have already recommended a 5800X3D drop in if costs are an issue If not the 7800X3D is the best option for the OP.
 
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You go on thinking those pointless CPU reviews with a 4090 mean anything for high end VR sim gaming like the OP specified. With any decent CPU from a 5800X3D up, the OPs 4080 will be a bigger bottleneck in MSFS than his CPU at VR gaming.

I have already recommended a 5800X3D drop in if costs are an issue If not the 7800X3D is the best option for the OP.
1) I know what you were saying and suggesting, you did say the 7800X3D if just for gaming but argued that the 7900X3D was better if you're focussed on productivity and then tried to ignore price...whilst also mentioning price at points in your choice
2) Those reviews make way more sense than any of your points made in this thread, even if your point about suggesting the 5800X3D or 7800X3D is correct and in line with mine and other peoples suggestions, your reasoning for recommending them is layered with a flawed understanding of how reviews work, confusing and often wrong.
3) I was pointing out that your understanding of trying to find the best CPU means that you need to isolate variables using test conditions so that you can make a choice that leads to better gaming in high-end VR and sim gaming. I never ignored those points, I actively pointed out that the 5800X3D and 7800X3D were the best options whilst suggesting that your points about the 7900X3D were flawed using actual objective facts and pricing.
4) I never said that the 4080 would be anything, I was pointing out the way to ensure that your CPU isn't a bottleneck and that includes making sure that you buy something that will work for games now and into the future. A 4080 would be a bottleneck in a system but only if OP was to run at max fidelity. If he only has a 1080P monitor, the CPU becomes the bottleneck.
5) What if a game came out that was so CPU heavy that even 8 cores 16 threads became a bottleneck? It's likely to happen at some point in the future so saying "future" to argue your point isn't helpful since all tech evolves and so does computer gaming hardware requirements for all components.
6) You have no idea what you are talking about. I strongly suggest you revise your opinion about CPU reviews before making any further recommendations.
7) I'm done.
 
I’ve been building and overclocking/tuning PCs for over 30 years. I think I know how CPUs work and how “useful” those atypical low res low settings CPU tests with a 4090 are.
 
Apparently not :cry:

lol, whatever. We both gave the same advice based on the OP’s current criteria that they just bought an 4080 and PSU and the fact they were NOT really keen on a significant upgrade cost. They also play MSFS in VR, which is quite GPU intensive so they are going to be mostly GPU bottlenecked. Or in my opinion, spending the guts of £700 on an upgrade would yield no tangible improvements over a £260 upgrade.

Yet jolly at one point started going off on how a 7800X3D would be a better investment than a 7900X3D and not once did I or anyone else ever recommend one to the OP.
 
I had a 7900X3D, great at gaming.
(Cost me £350 brand new)

It’s a great CPU but it is quite niche at its price point. If you want only gaming save money and get a 7800X3D, if more productivity then a 7900X3D, or preferably a 7950X3D will be better. If you have a mid range or lower GPU then a 7900X3D (or 7800X3D) is overkill for gaming.

At current UK prices the 7900X3D gives a good compromise on price for gaming and relatively intensive productivity needs.
 
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Ideally I'd like to keep costs down a little. That said, I do want to realise the potential.
If I went for a 7950X3D I'd need a new motherboard wouldn't I? But the 5800X3D can go straight in you think?

A 7950X3D will release all the potentials. ‘Tis a silly fast desktop CPU for all occasions.
 
A 7950X3D will release all the potentials. ‘Tis a silly fast desktop CPU for all occasions.

It’s all going to depend on how long the OP plans to keep that brand new 4080 for, bearing in mind it’s a good GPU they just bought. The OP is using MSFS in VR and that is quite GPU intensive and the 4080 will run MSFS almost indentically with either of a 7950X3D, or a 5800X3D. Both will give a substantial improvement over their 3900X CPU, but the 5800X3D is a lot cheaper overall.

This is why I am saying those low res low setting CPU benchmarks with a 4090 are meaningless for people who own a 4080 or lower and aren’t planning a GPU change. People build unbalanced systems and wonder why their very costly new CPU/motherboard/RAM, or GPU hasn't improved their performance like the review said it would.

Here is a VR test in MSFS of a 5950X3D vs 5800X3D using a 4090 and the differences are marginal between the CPUs. A 4080 will bottleneck more than a 4090, so any advanage the 7950X3D has when paired with a 4090 would be almost nullified.

 
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It’s all going to depend on how long the OP plans to keep that brand new 4080 for, bearing in mind it’s a good GPU they just bought. The OP is using MSFS in VR and that is quite GPU intensive and the 4080 will run MSFS almost indentically with either of a 7950X3D, or a 5800X3D. Both will give a substantial improvement over their 3900X CPU, but the 5800X3D is a lot cheaper overall.

This is why I am saying those low res low setting CPU benchmarks with a 4090 are meaningless for people who own a 4080 or lower and aren’t planning a GPU change. People build unbalanced systems and wonder why their very costly new CPU/motherboard/RAM, or GPU hasn't improved their performance like the review said it would.

Here is a VR test in MSFS of a 5950X3D vs 5800X3D using a 4090 and the differences are marginal between the CPUs. A 4080 will bottleneck more than a 4090, so any advanage the 7950X3D has when paired with a 4090 would be almost nullified.


The difference at times can be huge at all resolutions. Sure not all games/situations but from a hardware perspective the 7950X3D is another league and leaves zero potential on the table and will fully tapout any GPU it’s paired with.
 
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My CPU Upgrade leaps were 3900X->5800X->5800X3D->7800X3D

MSFS is the main thing I play.GFX went 5900XT (with the 3900X)->6900XT (With the 5xxx CPU)-> and then 4070Ti with the 7800X3D.

The leapt 5800X3D was huge. Significant MSFS improvement. Going again to 7900X3D was big, but I obviously changed GFX too.

At the price a 5800X3D is, I'd start there. You'll get a good improvement.
 
I have a 5800X3D upgrade to do for a guy next week. I have the CPU here ready for the install. I will drop my 4080 into his PC and do an MSFS 4K comparison with my 7900X3D.

One thing I found out is people do a 79X03D install/setup without making sure the core parking is working. Some games (not all) try to use the non 3D cache CCD if core parking is disabled. This can have quite an impact on FPS.
 
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Thanks to all who have contributed here - it's very much appreciated. I opted for the 5800X3D. In hindsight I probably should have gone for a 4090 but hey ho.
I want a couple of years use out of this set up - I think with the rate that VR is changing that is realistic and no doubt there will be more demands on the PC by then.
 
I spent this morning upgrading a friends PC from a 5600X to a 5800X3D. 32GB of DDR4 3600 RAM. I took the liberty of testing a few games using my RTX 4080 in his 5800X3D vs my 7900X3D.

CP 2077 RT
4K Ultra (RT Psycho) DLSS quality. Results were identical between the two systems as this is a very GPU bottlenecked game, even on an RTX 4080
5800X3D was mid 50s FPS during all testing.
7900X3D was mid 50s FPS during all testing.

I am happy with this FPS on both systems as it stays within my 4K monitor VRR refresh rates and feels smooth.

MSFS
4K ultra, DLSS Quality, terrain LOD 220 and all other settings maxed. I do turn off DoF and only did a quick Activites> Discovery Flights> New York Cesna discovery flight around the area with the Empire state building. I kept altitude to about 1000ft. This is far more CPU dependent.

New York discovery flight (Cesna)
5800X3D was average of about 60 FPS (50 to 70 FPS)
7900X3D was average of about 70 FPS (55 to 80 FPS)

Admittedly these are only brief tests. So even with a 4080 the 7900X3D will give better performance by around 15% average in some of the more demanding areas. Minimums are about 10% higher. Personally if I were in the OPs position, I would not be upset that I was losing any significant performance by saving £400 - £500 or more. To be honest had I not had the FPS counter showing I would not have been able to see any difference as both CPUs kept within my monitor VRR range.
 
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I spent this morning upgrading a friends PC from a 5600X to a 5800X3D. 32GB of DDR4 3600 RAM. I took the liberty of testing a few games using my RTX 4080 in his 5800X3D vs my 7900X3D.

CP 2077 RT
4K Ultra (RT Psycho) DLSS quality. Results were identical between the two systems as this is a very GPU bottlenecked game, even on an RTX 4080
5800X3D was mid 50s FPS during all testing.
7900X3D was mid 50s FPS during all testing.

I am happy with this FPS on both systems as it stays within my 4K monitor VRR refresh rates and feels smooth.

MSFS
4K ultra, DLSS Quality, terrain LOD 220 and all other settings maxed. I do turn off DoF and only did a quick Activites> Discovery Flights> New York Cesna discovery flight around the area with the Empire state building. I kept altitude to about 1000ft. This is far more CPU dependent.

New York discovery flight (Cesna)
5800X3D was average of about 60 FPS (50 to 70 FPS)
7900X3D was average of about 70 FPS (55 to 80 FPS)

Admittedly these are only brief tests. So even with a 4080 the 7900X3D will give better performance by around 15% average in some of the more demanding areas. Minimums are about 10% higher. Personally if I were in the OPs position, I would not be upset that I was losing any significant performance by saving £400 - £500 or more. To be honest had I not had the FPS counter showing I would not have been able to see any difference as both CPUs kept within my monitor VRR range.
That's good to read. I'm still trying to find decent settings for my VR but of course those will change after the new CPU is installed. I get around 36 FPS at the moment which is actually ok. Look forward to being able to boost the settings a bit though
 
That's good to read. I'm still trying to find decent settings for my VR but of course those will change after the new CPU is installed. I get around 36 FPS at the moment which is actually ok. Look forward to being able to boost the settings a bit though

What VR setup do you have? For most even 4K numbers will be below what a typical current VR HMD can do. A Reverb G2 or Quest 3 will be about 15% more pixels than a 4K screen. If you are on a Pimax 8KX, Crystal or Varjo then all GPU bets are off. They are at least twice as demanding or more than a typical 4K monitor. :D

I will say that even with a 4080 you will see a substantial improvement in VR FPS with your CPU upgrade. A 7800X3D would be marginal improvements for your use case. Certainly not worth the £450+ extra for new RAM, motherboard and the more expensive CPU.
 
I'd say that cooler isn't really upto the job to be perfectly honest, if you're looking to go with that CPU, I'd definitely look at upgrading that cooler at the same time
 
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