Criticise the Saudis and you go home in pieces

Damn! Turkey reportedly has audio of him being beaten and murdered:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7eb59445bad6
Hmmm I wonder what type of spying they do which gives them audio and video inside an embassy as well as knowing they went to the consul general afterwards... surveillance squads on all foreign officials in their country as well as bugging embassies?

Do you think most foreign bodies assume their embassies to be safe/private, or they all do it so all know? (Except the Saudis)
 
Hmmm I wonder what type of spying they do which gives them audio and video inside an embassy as well as knowing they went to the consul general afterwards... surveillance squads on all foreign officials in their country as well as bugging embassies?

Do you think most foreign bodies assume their embassies to be safe/private, or they all do it so all know? (Except the Saudis)


Most big governments build thier own embassies iirc. So they possibly like in spy movies build in a few safe rooms or areas that are proofed against this stuff while most of the building would be considered to be being evesdropped on.


After all 99% of what an embassy does is day to day beurocracy dodgy **** is a tiny amount of it
 
It would be quite wrong for our Government to criticise a far away country peopled by barbarians of whom we know little.

They may have tortured and murdered one of their citizens in Turkey and they may be murdering large numbers of people in a neighbouring country but we do make a lot of money by selling them weapons and the tools of torture. They also happen to own half of Westminster, Knightsbridge and Kensington.
 
Hmmm I wonder what type of spying they do which gives them audio and video inside an embassy as well as knowing they went to the consul general afterwards... surveillance squads on all foreign officials in their country as well as bugging embassies?

Do you think most foreign bodies assume their embassies to be safe/private, or they all do it so all know? (Except the Saudis)

They'd be pretty naive if they did...

Why do you think all local employees were sent home from the Saudi Ambasador's residence for example?

Most embassies employ locals and they're a rather obvious source of intelligence for the host nation. And of course some embassies will be under surveillance, their communications intercepted etc..

I mean cryptography pretty much started off as a way to secure military and diplomatic communications.
 
Think I'll go with Occams razor on this one

My point was - was the death deliberate and pre-planned (in which case the cover story is boy-scout levels of naivety) or was it accidental during the brutal interrogation and they panicked afterwards?

Either way Saudi has massively shot itself in the foot over this. If they just wanted the guy dead then have a "mugging go wrong" happen to him, or a hit & run etc, almost anything is better than this extremely obvious "oh ****!" they decided to carry out.
 
My point was - was the death deliberate and pre-planned (in which case the cover story is boy-scout levels of naivety) or was it accidental during the brutal interrogation and they panicked afterwards?

Yeah, the Washington Post article does mention a previous plot to lure him back to KSA too... why send 15 people on two private jets to merely kill him, a kidnap plot gone wrong is quite plausible.
 
It would be quite wrong for our Government to criticise a far away country peopled by barbarians of whom we know little.

They may have tortured and murdered one of their citizens in Turkey and they may be murdering large numbers of people in a neighbouring country but we do make a lot of money by selling them weapons and the tools of torture. They also happen to own half of Westminster, Knightsbridge and Kensington.

It's funny that your signature says what and you're using what-about-ism
 
How about this as an alternative -

  • Journalist goes to Embassy after booking an appointment previously
  • He gets seized inside and held by a 7 man interrogation squad who had arrived earlier that day, specifically for him
  • During his interrogation he has a heart attack and dies
  • 1st squad poops their pants over an unexpected dead body in the consulate and decides to ask for help from Saudi
  • Saudi says "Oh ****!" then tells them to get rid of the body and scrambles a 2nd team to help remove any evidence
  • 1st squad then chops up the body in the embassy and removes the body/body-parts to a nearby diplomats home
  • 2nd squad arrive later that day with forensic/autopsy expert and sanitise the scene before leaving the country
  • 1st squad leave separately with the body parts
  • Only then do Saudis think about making a "cover story", hence it's rushed and poor narrative
So in that "story" here the death is accidental (not convinced on a "bone saw" yet) but rather than admitting he died during questioning and having an independent autopsy prove it was a heart attack (bad for Saudi in the short term with the press), they do what Saudi's tend to do in a crisis and panic (I know this from long experience), making the situation a thousand times worse for themselves.

For context, Saudis don't tend to be the most "free thinking" of people when in a crisis where they don't seem to be able to think of a abstract solution on the spot, instead sticking rigidly to a plan regardless that it has already collapsed. So putting them in a rapidly changing situation going from worse to worse makes their reactions look, to us at least, to be extremely amateur and ill thought-out, such as having the Crown Prince (MBS) get involved in the press saying "he left via the back-gate" - making MBS out to be a liar when it's proven otherwise and putting the whole Saudi government/Crown on the worlds Poop list now the evidence is mounting.


/subscribed - when does season 2 come out
 
I can't believe that we have got to page 2 of this and the discussion of diplomatic immunity hasn't triggered a Lethal Weapon 2 gif.

OK I will do it.

giphy.gif
 
/subscribed - when does season 2 come out

:D

Just something I think is more plausible. I mean sending 15 people in two separate groups (the first including interrogation experts and a second, landing over 12hrs later, containing a clean-up crew) just to deliberately kill an overweight 60 year old man seems odd. If they KNEW they were going to kill him why not send the clean-up crew along with the kill crew, why wait 12hrs between them etc, why not have a better cover story made up ready etc. It all just seems rushed and panicky and the only situation I can see to cause that would be that the death was unintentional.

Especially when the botch job the Saudis did with the poorly attempted cover-up is having massive political and financial ramifications across the globe.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rns-Saudi-Arabia-wake-journalists-murder.html
 
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It gets murkier and murkier.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10...udi-arabia-and-the-rise-of-the-mobster-state/

Worse, from the royals’ point of view, was that Khashoggi had dirt on Saudi links to al Qaeda before the 9/11 attacks. He had befriended Osama bin Laden in the 1980s and 1990s in Afghanistan and Sudan while championing his jihad against the Soviets in dispatches. At that same time, he was employed by the Saudi intelligence services to try to persuade bin Laden to make peace with the Saudi royal family. The result? Khashoggi was the only non-royal Saudi who had the beef on the royals’ intimate dealing with al Qaeda in the lead-up to the 9/11 attacks. That would have been crucial if he had escalated his campaign to undermine the crown prince.
 
Oopsy daisies, eventually the Saudi's will do something totally untenable that even the most stoic traitorous ******* American/British establishment ally of the Realm can't defend them. Where are those naughty little FBI/CIA reports into Saudi culpability for 9/11?

Inb4 a random Iranian plot device to confuse the situation back to the usual engineered local strife.
 
Well plenty of Senators from both sides are not too happy about this, the Magnitsky Act is coming into play here:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/magnitsky-act-apply-khashoggi-case-181011184312416.html

After the disappearance of prominent Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, US Senators triggered the terms of the Global Magnitsky Act, which requires the president to investigate and determine if a foreign person is responsible for an extrajudicial killing, torture or other gross violation of internationally recognised human rights.

In a letter, signed by a bipartisan group of 22 Senators on Wednesday, Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, demanded President Donald Trump probe any violations committed against Khashoggi.

[...]

On Wednesday, ranking members and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee sent a letter to President Trump triggering the Magnitsky Act and an investigation into whether rights violations occurred relating to Khashoggi's disappearance.

Upon receipt of the letter, the White House has 120 days to report back to the committee with a decision and determine whether it will impose sanctions on the foreign individual(s) involved in the "gross violation of internationally recognized human rights against an individual exercising freedom of expression".

Human rights violations would also include "torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment, prolonged detention without charges and trial, causing the disappearance of persons by the abduction and clandestine detention of those persons, and other flagrant denial of the right to life, liberty, or the security of person," the Committee wrote in its letter on Wednesday.

"Therefore, we request that you make a determination on the imposition of sanctions pursuant to the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act with respect to any foreign person responsible for such a violation related to Mr. Khashoggi," Senators said. "Our expectation is that in making your determination you will consider any relevant information, including with respect to the highest ranking officials in the Government of Saudi Arabia."

The letter was sent by Senators Bob Menendez (D-NJ) and Bob Corker (R-TN), ranking member and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC), ranking member and chairman of the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs.

The letter was also signed by Senators Marco Rubio (R-FL), Ben Cardin (D-MD), John Barrasso (R-WY), Chris Murphy (D-CT), Jeff Flake (R-AZ), Tim Kaine (D-VA), Cory Gardner (R-CO), Ed Markey (D-MA), Johnny Isakson (R-GA), Jeff Merkley (D-OR), Todd Young (R-IN), Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Rob Portman (R-OH), Cory Booker (D-NJ), Ron Johnson (R-WI), Chris Coons (D-Del), Jim Risch (R-Idaho), and Tom Udall (D-NM).
 
All pre-planned for trump to be the one who brings the 9/11 conspirators to justice

What was pre-planned?


The assassination/interrogation gone wrong? Or the mixture of both Democrat and Republican Senators mentioned above?
 
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