Curiosity Inspired Long Range Remote Vehicle - a project I want to get OCUK started on.

Morbius said:
I have a mathematics degree, let me know when you've got problems to solve :)

I design radio antennas for a living, mostly in the UHF and microwave frequencies. I reckon you'll end up in the 2.4 GHz band. You'll want a nice high-gain directional antenna for the base station and a fairly simple omnidirectional antenna on the car.
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Your assistance would be most awesome :)

Abraxaz1 said:
I cant believe I'm saying this....
But can we make a project brief/specification, outlining the requirements of the project, such as requirements.

Congratulations I now feel Dirty...

From Your OP, I can Gather That you want the following:
Vehicle:
* Off Road Capable,
* Able to a carry Both electronics and charging equipment (solar)

Control Systems;
Full Motor Control? Independent steering? or 2wd front steering?
Cameras able to stream live video and audio
*Most likely easiest to do with WiFi and I.P. Cameras.
* Remote control Over Long rang will have to be via 3g technology as rf, Would require rediculus amounts of power and the bands needed will either cost money or be illegal to use.

Pretty sure a arduino could handle the control of the rover, all we would need is a bluetooth enabled android phone and a custom app.

Maybe Something Like this:
http://www.robotshop.com/productinfo.aspx?pc=rb-rbo-33

With a mobile phone attached. Could probably cover the top in solar panels and have it trickle charge the battery system.

Couple of my own ideas
  • Have a non-static camera mounted on a armature controlled by a step motor.
  • Have Rover GPS Enabled, Which Can be overlaid Onto google maps or similar.
  • Temperature, altitude, etc logger available on line.
  • buoyancy and water proofing as it will be operating in north wales...
If this actually goes ahead, I'm in. Background in electronics, pic/plc programming, instrumentation and frigging.
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lol why feel dirty ?

I like all your ideas, maybe we could have both solar and wind power (im thinking wind power if its in the mountains as its constantly windy and will get a good amount of power from that)

What's everyone's considerations for the above ideas? Or are we best starting with the remote car to have a good base to learn from and sort a team out ?


EDIT: Also for any non aqua based machines I want to replicate Curiosities transparent lens caps idea...i.e. we can control them from our interface at home, keeping dust off is the main thing, it will also act as a rain cover if half open.
 
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Combat squirrel said:
I like all your ideas, maybe we could have both solar and wind power (im thinking wind power if its in the mountains as its constantly windy and will get a good amount of power from that)

What's everyone's considerations for the above ideas? Or are we best starting with the remote car to have a good base to learn from and sort a team out ?
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I think both would be useful, solar during the day to keep everything ticking over and wind at night, the rover could go into a kind of sleep mode, deploy the wind turbine and charge up while resting.

It really depends on what the climate is going to be like and really we'd need to examine what the challenges and goals are going to be before starting to address how we're going to solve them.
 
I we go down the wind turbine route, can we make sure its one that operates in teh horizontal plane, as its more efficent, wont need to be targeted and wont effect the centre of gravity unlike a vertical plane wind turbine.
Example
zDh0b.jpg.png


Combat squirrel said:
lol why feel dirty ?
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Because in work I try to avoid the project briefings and specification draw ups like the plague

If it was my individual project, i'd make it a Tracked rover, due to the type of terrain it will encounter, also because it allows some form of propulsion through puddles and thick mud.
I would have the Tracks sitting proud of the body work, so that it can operate even if flipped, only issue is fitting a wind turbine and rotatable camera.
I would run the device of a phone internet connection because rf, has a short legal range, and licences for long powerful ranged systems are expensive.
I would run the whole system using a Arduino PIC bluetooth enabled board, because there cheap, low voltage/power draw, Customisable and realitvely shock proof.

but thats just my two cents, most likely someone on here has a better idea as I haven't a large amount of experiences with RF gear.
 
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unless you have the wind turbine up high you are not going to get much wind. you would probably need 6'+ to generate any sort of decent power. i still say you should work out a way to incorporate a solar array. so that when it is moving you can have a small amount of cells charging and when the cell get to low, it will try to find some good sunlight in a "limp" mode and when it does, deploy the larger array.
 
arknor said:
you want a rock crawler something like a bigger

battery life is going to be a huge problem though
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Ha awesome stuff, however they are moving about 100x faster than this one will move :eek:, im thinking 6 wheel design, more or less exactly the same speed as Curiosity goes at (scaled) ... i.e. no one is going to be around to help move it if it gets stuck.

Part of the fun once completed will be planning every move from the data we get from the cams on board to move the vehicle successfully to a new location.

Abraxaz1 said:
I we go down the wind turbine route, can we make sure its one that operates in teh horizontal plane, as its more efficent, wont need to be targeted and wont effect the centre of gravity unlike a vertical plane wind turbine.
Example
zDh0b.jpg.png



Because in work I try to avoid the project briefings and specification draw ups like the plague

If it was my individual project, i'd make it a Tracked rover, due to the type of terrain it will encounter, also because it allows some form of propulsion through puddles and thick mud.
I would have the Tracks sitting proud of the body work, so that it can operate even if flipped, only issue is fitting a wind turbine and rotatable camera.
I would run the device of a phone internet connection because rf, has a short legal range, and licences for long powerful ranged systems are expensive.
I would run the whole system using a Arduino PIC bluetooth enabled board, because there cheap, low voltage/power draw, Customisable and realitvely shock proof.

but thats just my two cents, most likely someone on here has a better idea as I haven't a large amount of experiences with RF gear.
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Yeah for sure I understand your concerns ! I hate corporate work briefings BS, but as this is an online collaboration we will have to meet up in discussion rooms and stuff to throw ideas around and stuff and discuss everyones ideas - it can be fun as well! lol

Also thinking we will have to go the phone route, but we will have to put a massive antenna on the phone to assure we get good signal.
 
Guys, this is just a thought.

How about a charging station? it would save weight on the vehicle. But will hinder total movement time.

ie: solar array plonked somewhere close by (or several?), charges up local batteries. When rover's batteries are going down, rover automatically disengages manual control and moves to solar array to charge up.

Just a thought.

Still think flux capacitor is the way forward.
 
I have access to a large CNC mill and a host of BMS electronics and manufacturing equipment, including surface mounting, reflow and flow solder.

Solder, metal and wood work I can do a lot, and have access to a lot of tools. Electronics knowledge is mediocre. Been working with microcontrollers and software recently though, and know a couple of engineers with 'mad skills'.

My offering
  • BMS electronics inc. windspeed detection, barometers etc
  • CNC equipment and high(ish) end electronics manufacturing
  • Access to purchasing from major electronics corps at heavily discounted rates
  • Access to an arduino micro controller
  • A life size cutout of the brazillian womens volleyball team

Project sounds like brilliant fun and I'd like to get involved. Let me know if I can help : [email protected]
 
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I'm going to weigh in again from the same perspective as in my previous post but specifically regarding the topic of power generation. I would not add a wind turbine... 1) An effective enough wind turbine is going to impose an annoying design constraint on the rover 2) If this is Mars rover inspired, then sort of dealing with managing limited resources (in this case solar-only charging) while planning daily operations is in my view going to be part of the fun of operating this thing.

Side note: Granted the actual MSL does not deal with limitations of solar, but it's RTG power source does not provide "more than enough" electrical power for an entire day. They touched on this in one of the briefings. It charges the batteries (mostly over night) and then during day time operations combined with batteries provides just enough power for the typcial day.
 
Not to pee on everyones parade but this is showing all the signs of being death by initial enthusiasm/committee :p

OP strongly suggest you do the necessary research/initial groundwork by yourself, and then let people join in when you have a clear idea of what's required and what you're actually setting out to do. Otherwise you'll have a load of people suggesting a load of stuff that they've just plucked out of thin air, with no real experience of what they're recommending or having done anything like this. It all sounds very pie in the sky [/realist]

At the very least just get a couple of interested parties involved, have them make some sort of commitment (i.e. cash, arrange to meet etc) to show they're serious and then go from there.

Everything you're hoping to do so far can be achieved with off the shelf components that you can have delivered next day.

Arduino is probably your best bet (not 100% sure but I think the power requirements of the RPi would count it out), and as someone said XBee transceivers might be the way to go. I've used them on a couple of projects and they're great - though I haven't used them over 14KM distances :p

There's a poster on here called Jon (can't remember his username) who's done a lot of work with balloons and sending them into near-space, along with working on the associated telemetry/radio/electronics - seems highly clued up and would be my first port of call when asking for advice. I'm sure he'll be along shortly!

Anyway, great idea, and don't mean to sound like a cynic, enthusiasm is a big part of any project, but sometimes it's a hindrance too (especially on an open forum where everything can run away from you and get lost in the initial wave of enthusiasm...). As I've said, I've been involved in a few electronic projects that used Arduino's, XBee etc - I'd be willing to help be it just providing you with some links or whatever, lm at zx.me.uk
 
All valid input which I welcome, for sure its going to go through a few changes with the project and plans, but thats what this is, to find out how these things come together and learn from the process as well as gain in technical knowledge.

GreatWaves, good input, however I will do some more research on the wind turbine idea, purely to learn but also to see the potential power output, I dont believe it will put massive problems in the design of the rover, of course I never said it had to look pretty :p just be practical :D, but even a small input to trickle charge batteries 24 hours per day is a big up on just solar power.

Also solar power in snowdonia is almost non existent especially in winter, so we need another source of power all year round, the only viable technical option for that is wind power.

Of course MSL is limited on its power, BUT that is made a lot easier by a plutonium power source with a 70-90 year lifetime :p, also they are trying to run 10's (20-30?) scientific instruments, 22 cameras, as well as transmit data 350 million miles - or orbital space craft. Of course they have 'awesome' mobile power with nuclear power sources, but given the requirements of instruments and transmission power i can see how it runs out fast.

Anyways there will be solar but I think that will be secondary, other than wind, whats the options?.......an extreme option could be fuel cells, but thats very ott.

I sort of see how it could be pie in the sky slyfox but im honestly going to do it with hopefully as many interested parties as possible, even if it takes me 5 years im going to put something together :)

Thanks guys
 
Once this is all sorted out as to what actually is being done I'd gladly help out. I'd imagine though I'd having nothing to offer practically, so instead it'd be helping by reaching into my pocket!
 
Im not convinced that a arduino is the way to go, if we use them we lose all control over the electronic design and the whole project becomes a mechanical and software job.
 
Shadez said:
Im not convinced that a arduino is the way to go, if we use them we lose all control over the electronic design and the whole project becomes a mechanical and software job.
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I've never used arduino before, but from a cursory glance at the specifications, it doesn't appear to be capable of the sort of task you're interested in (machine vision being the big one).

Your ideal is a bespoke platform based on the requirements of the rover (especially the power requirements). My suggestion would be to start off with a reasonably powerful Linux-based platform such as BeagleBoard for initial development / proof-of-concept work, and migrate to a bespoke platform later on. That way you don't have to wait for hardware development to complete before starting on the high-level software.

All in all this sounds like an interesting -- if somewhat ambitious! -- project and I'll be interested to see how it comes along. I'm happy to help out where I can (I'm an embedded software engineer, with some experience of embedded systems akin to this one) but it'll depend on my available spare time, which is somewhat lacking at the moment.
 
Hi everyone !!

Ok, ive made a Google docs spread sheet with requirements, volunteers and kind donators to the project.

People interested or have already put your name down:

1) Go on the document and add your skills, self-defined project role, email and if you like (optional) your real 1st name only.
2) Those that already have volunteered I’ve done my best to add your skills already but add them/edit them.
3) If you would like to donate to the cause please add your OCUK name and donation amount
4) I will discuss with everyone what the best way is to hold the funds and use them to buy components for the project

Im thinking for donators we will add there name/OCUK username to the vehicle or something similar? Like small writing of each name on it as a thank you to the people that will make it possible.

I also have an excel copy of the table should something happen that messes up this google table, but please make every effort to maintain the google docs table properly :)

It has three tables on the spreadsheet - name list - kind donators - rover requirements

Link here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgR462RLR9badEhkQUhscEI1SndGSXZVVmNtNmhuYlE

Thank you !!!! :)
 
xyphic said:
I've never used arduino before, but from a cursory glance at the specifications, it doesn't appear to be capable of the sort of task you're interested in (machine vision being the big one).

Your ideal is a bespoke platform based on the requirements of the rover (especially the power requirements). My suggestion would be to start off with a reasonably powerful Linux-based platform such as BeagleBoard for initial development / proof-of-concept work, and migrate to a bespoke platform later on. That way you don't have to wait for hardware development to complete before starting on the high-level software.
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There are plenty of development boards available for all microprocessors (i have several available to be), i wouldnt go for a linux dev board unless we are going to use linux in our final product.

Combat squirrel said:
Hi everyone !!

Ok, ive made a Google docs spread sheet with requirements, volunteers and kind donators to the project.

People interested or have already put your name down:

1) Go on the document and add your skills, self-defined project role, email and if you like (optional) your real 1st name only.
2) Those that already have volunteered I’ve done my best to add your skills already but add them/edit them.
3) If you would like to donate to the cause please add your OCUK name and donation amount
4) I will discuss with everyone what the best way is to hold the funds and use them to buy components for the project

Im thinking for donators we will add there name/OCUK username to the vehicle or something similar? Like small writing of each name on it as a thank you to the people that will make it possible.

I also have an excel copy of the table should something happen that messes up this google table, but please make every effort to maintain the google docs table properly :)

It has three tables on the spreadsheet - name list - kind donators - rover requirements

Link here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgR462RLR9badEhkQUhscEI1SndGSXZVVmNtNmhuYlE

Thank you !!!! :)
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Done!
 
Shadez said:
There are plenty of development boards available for all microprocessors (i have several available to be), i wouldnt go for a linux dev board unless we are going to use linux in our final product.
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BeagleBoard was an example of a platform that I've seen used for machine-vision robotics projects in the past.

Choice of operating system is definitely a discussion worth having. Added my details to the spreadsheet; looking forward to hopefully being able to contribute. :)
 
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