D800 official release

DJ_Switch · 24 Mar 2012 at 22:57

What on earth is going on with the pricing of this thing? It's now up £200 on the rainforest place and Jessops, now making it £2599 and yet it's still only £2099 from the Jersey based place? :confused:

The whole story from Nikon UK about the initial RRP being an error just stinks to be honest. I can't help but feel that after seeing Canon's pricing for the Mk3 and feeling they've got the superior product that they've just decided to fleece us. How on earth could it have been an error that was rolled out worldwide and was not noticed until now? If I wasn't getting married next week and needing every penny I have then I'd be tempted to just grab it from the Jersey place before the price is adjusted there as well. Hopefully the price settles down after the initial rush but somehow I can't see that happening.

An Exception · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:09

DJ_Switch said:
What on earth is going on with the pricing of this thing? It's now up £200 on the rainforest place and the Jessops, now making it £2599 and yet it's still only £2099 from the Jersey based place? The whole story from Nikon UK about the initial RRP being an error just stinks to be honest. I can't help but feel that after seeing Canon's pricing for the Mk3 and feeling they've got the superior product that they've just decided to fleece us. How on earth could it have been an error that was rolled out worldwide and was not noticed until now? If I wasn't getting married next week and needing every penny I have then I'd be tempted to just grab it from the Jersey place before the price is adjusted there as well. Hopefully the price settles down after the initial rush but somehow I can't see that happening.

+1

bigredshark · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:18

I think you're all insane. They've launched the camera in more than a dozen countries, all the pricing would have been set centrally so somewhere somebodies being doing 50 different calculations and made a mistake. It's not a damn conspiracy, it's just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong.

It was too cheap for sense anyway, after several years, inflation and a 36MP sensor less than the 5DII launch price was strange...

bigredshark · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:22

Or lets just put that another way - what exactly are you proposing as the reason they've decided to screw the UK only? Rather than say, any of the other larger and more profitable markets? Do you think they hate the accent that much? Or is there some other reason they've got it in for us today you'd like to suggest?

nolimit · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:22

ElDude said:
Nikon cameras have always been smaller, or at least were when I first got into it, and I even have to buy a battery grip because the Canon 300D, 30D and now 60D while bigger than the Nikon alternative, still aren't comfortable for me without a grip.

The above Canon bodies you have listed is actually smaller then Nikon equivalent, hence the need for grip.

Based on release date and equivalent models the Nikon has always been the bigger and easier to hold camera.

Nikon D50 bigger then Canon 300D/350D.
Nikon D70(s) bigger then Canon 10D/20D
Nikon D200/D300 again bigger then Canon 30D/40D/50D
Nikon D300s identical to Canon 7D
Nikon D7000 bigger then Canon 60D
Nikon D700 bigger then Canon 5D Mark II
Nikon D3/D3s is bigger then Canon 1D Mark III/IV

the list goes on.

The only cameras I have not used are the Nikon D3 and Mark III/IV, all the other camera's I have used extensively.

jonneymendoza · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:24

bigredshark said:
I think you're all insane. They've launched the camera in more than a dozen countries, all the pricing would have been set centrally so somewhere somebodies being doing 50 different calculations and made a mistake. It's not a damn conspiracy, it's just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong.

It was too cheap for sense anyway, after several years, inflation and a 36MP sensor less than the 5DII launch price was strange...

Employee of Nikon? smells like it

bigredshark · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:26

nolimit said:
The above Canon bodies you have listed is actually smaller then Nikon equivalent, hence the need for grip.

Based on release date and equivalent models the Nikon has always been the bigger and easier to hold camera.

Nikon D50 bigger then Canon 300D/350D.
Nikon D70(s) bigger then Canon 10D/20D
Nikon D200/D300 again bigger then Canon 30D/40D/50D
Nikon D300s identical to Canon 7D
Nikon D7000 bigger then Canon 60D
Nikon D700 bigger then Canon 5D Mark II
Nikon D3/D3s is bigger then Canon 1D Mark III/IV

the list goes on.

I was going to say this too actually, very true...but the D70 came first, after the D100...

Also, the bigger and easier to hold bit tails off after the D300, the D700 and D3(s/x) could be seen as needlessly bulky, particularly the D700, I prefer the 5DII in the hand and it's a fair bit lighter.

DJ_Switch · 24 Mar 2012 at 23:50

bigredshark said:
I think you're all insane. They've launched the camera in more than a dozen countries, all the pricing would have been set centrally so somewhere somebodies being doing 50 different calculations and made a mistake. It's not a damn conspiracy, it's just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong.

It was too cheap for sense anyway, after several years, inflation and a 36MP sensor less than the 5DII launch price was strange...

So...you consider it insane to think that a company would increase its pricing in light of a high demand on its product and that pricing was calculated and rolled out by one person, unchecked? Even if it was one person and no one checked their error before it was rolled out, would it not have been spotted well in advance of now? Does this also account for the price rise of the D4 as well? If the price rise is implemented worldwide then will it still be insane to think they are cashing in on high demand as opposed to it being "just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong"?

Johnny|lucidcomposure · 25 Mar 2012 at 02:38

An Exception said:
Landscapes without needing filters or multiple exposures.

What? How does a D800 benefit here? Filters and multiple exposures what?? Please explain?

D.P. · 25 Mar 2012 at 02:56

nolimit said:
The above Canon bodies you have listed is actually smaller then Nikon equivalent, hence the need for grip.

Based on release date and equivalent models the Nikon has always been the bigger and easier to hold camera.

Nikon D50 bigger then Canon 300D/350D.
Nikon D70(s) bigger then Canon 10D/20D
Nikon D200/D300 again bigger then Canon 30D/40D/50D
Nikon D300s identical to Canon 7D
Nikon D7000 bigger then Canon 60D
Nikon D700 bigger then Canon 5D Mark II
Nikon D3/D3s is bigger then Canon 1D Mark III/IV

the list goes on.

The only cameras I have not used are the Nikon D3 and Mark III/IV, all the other camera's I have used extensively.

I was bout to post the same thing.

8 years ago the Nikon d70 was going against the canon 300d, and was a much bigger camera. The replacements for the canon 300d became smaller and smaller with more and more plastic and the Nikon d80 and d90 started going against the 40d etc. Now the progression in the Nikon prosumer line, the d7000 is outclassing and out sizing the 60d, really going against the canon 7D.
In 4 generations the Nikon prosumer camera has gone 2 bodies up the canon scale.

Canon and Nikon pro bodies are similar, but everything below that the Nikon's are larger cameras with more metal.

D.P. · 25 Mar 2012 at 03:08

Johnny|lucidcomposure said:
What? How does a D800 benefit here? Filters and multiple exposures what?? Please explain?

The d800 looks to boost at least 3 stops more dynamic range than the 5Dmkiii. To get close to that performance you are going to have to take 2-3 exposures and do some HDR processing, and/or use some ND-grad filters. Neither solution is ideal, that is why the d800 is landscape photographers wet dream.

Then there is the resolution. For landscape work you want as much detail as possible and frequently want to print very big while still maintaining small fine details. Again, the D800 helps a lot with a lot more resolution at 36MP. Not only that but the E version without an AA filter offers an effective resolution of 50-60MPs.

The best way with th canon 5dmk3 to get such resolution is to stitch a panoramic from 2-3 photos.

Not only that but canon don't offer any decent wide angle lenses, except perhaps the 17mm til- shift, which is great. Most serious canon landscapers use the Nikon 14-24mm via an adapter. The alternative is to use the canon 17ts, which is as wide but allows easy sticking of panoramics with the shift feature. Again, multiple exposures to get the same effect as a single d800. And you would still be far behind in dynamic range.

D.P. · 25 Mar 2012 at 03:11

DJ_Switch said:
So...you consider it insane to think that a company would increase its pricing in light of a high demand on its product and that pricing was calculated and rolled out by one person, unchecked? Even if it was one person and no one checked their error before it was rolled out, would it not have been spotted well in advance of now? Does this also account for the price rise of the D4 as well? If the price rise is implemented worldwide then will it still be insane to think they are cashing in on high demand as opposed to it being "just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong"?

Could be an exchange rate issue. The British pound is dropping in value very avast. If they used an old exchange rate then it would be quite wrong. Prices didnt go up in the US for example, so it is clearly not Nikon change RRP after launch. The high demand was very predictable and havens with every new dslr.

The d800 is still a bargain.

An Exception · 25 Mar 2012 at 03:14

Johnny|lucidcomposure said:
What? How does a D800 benefit here? Filters and multiple exposures what?? Please explain?

Huge, banding free dynamic range...
No need to worry about moving subjects (tree's etc), and no need to struggle with uneven horizon lines!

This DR also comes in handy in portraiture as well when the subject is backlit.

Here is an example shot while messing around with my D7000...

SOOC

Shadow detail lifted in LR (some annoying CA, but the shot was taken at F1.8)

bigredshark · 25 Mar 2012 at 05:51

DJ_Switch said:
So...you consider it insane to think that a company would increase its pricing in light of a high demand on its product

No, it's insane to think they'd do it in one country and lie about the reason. If it was worldwide or just done in the manner of normal product based price rises (i.e. silently) then it would make some sense (but not too much because you don't fiddle with prices like that after launch, you spend weeks calculating price points, you don't change them on a whim).

By the time they're actually giving the reason they're probably quite embarrassed about it, and it's a highly plausible mistake. If I ask you to calculate pricing for the US, Australia, China, Japan and god knows where else, with your lack of knowledge of the markets in those countries, it seems fairly logical you could make a mistake and if I checked I wouldn't immediately notice it should be 295,000 Yen rather than 275,000 Yen. How would I catch that without recalculating everything - it's in the right ballpark, I probably don't know the current exchange rate, I wouldn't at a glance suspect anything was wrong.

If the price rise is implemented worldwide then will it still be insane to think they are cashing in on high demand as opposed to it being "just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong"?

No, but it isn't being as yet. It's being implemented in one country and called a mistake, a country with a not particularly large market too. Given that, I'm inclined not to see a conspiracy everywhere and assume it's actually *shock horror* a mistake.

If they were raising the price due to limited supply and massive demand why not just say so? It's £200? Nobody who's prepared to buy a largely untested £2200 camera on pre-order is actually going to change their mind for the sake of £200 when the competition is still £2900.

I'm also amazed (though only slightly, it's the Nikon community after all) by the fuss, it's £200, 10%, of a £2000+ camera. If you're actually fretting over being able to afford that extra 10% then you probably shouldn't be buying a £2000 camera. Otherwise, it's an investment which will last 3-4 years at a minimum and still be worth half it's purchase price then. Which makes that £200 roughly £33 a year at worst in those terms, you might survive...

Rojin · 25 Mar 2012 at 09:13

Complete BS, they've had the pre-order price up for a month and the "error" is only noticed after the 5D3 release? Pull the other one.

On dpreview there's a post with how far you can push a shot before shadows get messy, D800 does 8 stops! Quite impressive that 5D3 does 6 though, and the gap disappears after ISO 400, not that that matters with landscape.

jonneymendoza · 25 Mar 2012 at 09:17

DJ_Switch said:
So...you consider it insane to think that a company would increase its pricing in light of a high demand on its product and that pricing was calculated and rolled out by one person, unchecked? Even if it was one person and no one checked their error before it was rolled out, would it not have been spotted well in advance of now? Does this also account for the price rise of the D4 as well? If the price rise is implemented worldwide then will it still be insane to think they are cashing in on high demand as opposed to it being "just a page of number somebody has misread or mistyped or added up wrong"?

like i said, he or she is a nikon employee.

Johnny|lucidcomposure · 25 Mar 2012 at 10:10

D.P. said:
The d800 looks to boost at least 3 stops more dynamic range than the 5Dmkiii. To get close to that performance you are going to have to take 2-3 exposures and do some HDR processing, and/or use some ND-grad filters. Neither solution is ideal, that is why the d800 is landscape photographers wet dream.

Then there is the resolution. For landscape work you want as much detail as possible and frequently want to print very big while still maintaining small fine details. Again, the D800 helps a lot with a lot more resolution at 36MP. Not only that but the E version without an AA filter offers an effective resolution of 50-60MPs.

The best way with th canon 5dmk3 to get such resolution is to stitch a panoramic from 2-3 photos.

Not only that but canon don't offer any decent wide angle lenses, except perhaps the 17mm til- shift, which is great. Most serious canon landscapers use the Nikon 14-24mm via an adapter. The alternative is to use the canon 17ts, which is as wide but allows easy sticking of panoramics with the shift feature. Again, multiple exposures to get the same effect as a single d800. And you would still be far behind in dynamic range.

3 stops more DR range over the 5DIII huh? interesting..

Rojin · 25 Mar 2012 at 10:27

Interesting article:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d-resolution-tests

Also most serious landscape photographers in know, actually all of them, use the TS lenses so they can use the sharpest f5.6 all through the frame.

bigredshark · 25 Mar 2012 at 11:29

Rojin said:
Complete BS, they've had the pre-order price up for a month and the "error" is only noticed after the 5D3 release? Pull the other one.

Who would notice and how? Assume the numbers are those given to Nikon UK from head office, head office aren't going to be scrutinising that much after sending them, they've got the entire world to worry about. Nikon UK would know no better as they're in the right ballpark. They would probably only notice when the next round of financial reporting happened and was analysed and somebody went 'if they've sold x units in the UK, why have they only made y?' (so, say, maybe a couple of weeks after preorders started...).

You don't change pricing at that point in a products life unless it's terminally uncompetitive and isn't selling at all. It's too much hassle.

Also, by your own logic, your suggesting it took three weeks after the Canon's price was known for Nikon to make the change.

You're also not offering any argument for why they would lie and why they would only do it in a single small foreign market?

bigredshark · 25 Mar 2012 at 11:36

jonneymendoza said:
like i said, he or she is a nikon employee.

Yes, obviously, all that time questioning the usefulness of the D800s resolution, it's slow speed and defending the 5DIII on these forums, I should have been more subtle... :rolleyes: