Poll: DAB+ is the future? Digital terrestrial radio broadcasting

[4K8KW10]

I hear that from December, 20, 2020, all new cars and home audio systems must comply with the European Union Directive and should include at least one digital signal receiving unit.
Hi DAB+, you are welcome to give us the better quality.

Is it close to CD Audio?

I mean in other countries, too, Germany, Norway? Thoughts?

https://industryeurope.com/digital-radios-in-cars-compulsory-under-eu-mandate/

 

[4K8KW10]

Dab+ is stereo, Dab is Mono isnt it?

Wow!

Don't forget also that FM is almost 100-year-old technology now, and that unpleasant hissing and fading, crackling, whining, buzzing, rasping or clicks and pops FM sound...

 

[4K8KW10]

A lot of those issues are reception-related. Get the aerial done right and they go away. The source signal can be very good.

DAB isn't immune to its own set of reception issues, but here's the difference: Get the aerial sorted and you're still left with a crappy source signal. Nothing you can do as a listener will ever compensate for the lack of bits in the source signal.

DAB could have been good. Send 256kbps and even MPEG-2 audio can sound pretty reasonable. But they never chose that path. It's quantity over quality, and the fact that the bit rates for some channels have fallen since launch so as to pack in more channels just shows what the future will be for DAB+ too.

But the FM signal also comes from a digital source and in some cases lacks bits.
I have listened to FM and DAB+ in Germany and can say that the DAB+ frequency range is wider, thus produces quite noticeably richer sound there.

Germany is 2-3 years away from switching the FM signals off completely.

Not to mention Norway and Switzerland. And Italy.

 

[4K8KW10]

Have you watched the video from the link that @Donnie Fisher posted?

Yes. There is the complaint in the video that your signal is low bit-rate and mono but I don't understand - do you do anything to change the current situation in the UK?

I mean with DAB+ you just need higher bit-rate which is achievable like you may wish.
Just do something.

Send signals - complaints - contact the national operator, contact the radio stations.

Use the democracy if you will.

And all of those places are not the UK.

We in the UK could have this wide dynamic range and good stereo performance and yadda yadda yadda..... but we haven't, and that's because we have filled our transmission space with crap so that it maximises revenue.

Whether the source 'tapes'/studio output is digital or not really isn't the issue. It's what happens once that signal gets to the transmission suite. How much of it is thrown away with agressive compression. That's the quality issue with DAB, and I dare say it will be a repeat performance with DAB+.

 

[4K8KW10]

Yes. There is a very vocal anti-DAB campaign. It is why the Government has continued to delay the analogue switch off.

I fear though that it's only a matter of time before there's enough bending of the truth for the Government to get its way.

23 pure DAB stations on 10B (211.648 MHz) in Manchester is not OK.
They have to release new free frequencies - from 5A to 10A every one is free, plus from 13A to 13F, and offload 70% of those 23 DAB stations from 10B to other multiplexes.

 

[4K8KW10]

News:
DAB+ is the future says National German Radio CEO
https://www.worlddab.org/news?page=2

DAB launch helps BBC reach all time record global audience
https://advanced-television.com/2020/07/23/bbc-reaches-all-time-record-global-audience/

DAB+ now the dominant standard in Europe says RTVE's Javier Sánchez
https://www.worlddab.org/news?page=6

And more at https://www.worlddab.org/news

 

[4K8KW10]

1998 was too early for DAB with very inefficient codecs. The countries that went that route this early, today don't understand a thing about DAB+ and HE-AAC v2, v3, etc.
They are biased. Finland wants to stay forever on analogue. Which is just pure incompetence.

 

[4K8KW10]

Have you any idea of how arrogant you sound? "The countries that went that route this early, today don't understand a thing about DAB+ and HE-AAC v2, v3, etc."

The UK has had DAB public broadcasts since 1995, so we have had DAB for a quarter of a century. I can assure you, we understand about the more efficient CODECs. That doesn't change the fact that our situation is different from that of Germany.

I am not going to accept a lecture from you when you live in a country that only launched its DAB service in 2011, and then it wasn't DAB but DAB+.

Germany hasn't had a DAB service. Your country is a Jonny-come-lately. It waited for someone else to do all the hard work, and now you have the nerve to stand on the shoulder of giants to proclaim how inferior DAB is and how we must all adopt DAB+. No, Sir. It will not stand.

Quite what Finland does with radio is their business. The Fins do a lot of things differently. Their education system starts later. Their driving instruction lasts a lot longer. But they also are a happier nation, so I don't think we have the right to criticise them. If FM meet's their needs, then so be it.

I have said before that I am not against DAB or DAB+ in principle if it offers genuine consumer benefits. What I am against is the Government peddling spin in order to get its hands on the bandwidth currently occupied by FM so it can turn a nice windfall profit. That is deceit.

If Germany's experience with DAB+ is positive then good luck to the country and I hope it continues. Please learn lessons from the UK. Our DAB+ will turn in to a rerun of DAB where quantity rather than quality is the mantra.

I disagree. If Berlin decides that the whole Union must accept a certain standard, then who are the Finns to decide against it?
They use an inferior standard, go against the audio systems standards and go against the foreigners who may very well be used to the better quality DAB+.

When you are in a union, you must follow the common interest, and the better interest, not your own arrogant interest as in Finland.

 

[4K8KW10]

God............................you are an arrogant individual BERLIN does not decide what the whole UNION does..........................the union does.

Germany is the largest economy, the fastest country and the driving force of the Union.

Measure 1: In order to support the digitisation of radio, the Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure
is proposing to incorporate a provision in the Telecommunications Act under which the vast majority of radio receivers
would have to be equipped in the future with at least one digital interface, enabling reception and playback of digitally encoded content,
provided that this is allowable under European law. To achieve advantages of scale in production,
Germany will push for this rule to be included in the regulatory framework of other EU Member States.

Page 10: https://www.worlddab.org/public_doc...rmation-hoerfunkverbreitung-en.pdf?1496824667

 

[4K8KW10]

Wow.

What of the said is not true and give an argument about your point?!

And all this from a guy who says HDR is a gimmick. Further to that I also believe you claimed your SDR LCD TV outputs HDR (cos you turned the brightness up

This is totally offtopic.

Idiot.

No one has asked you to tell us what you think about yourself.

 

[4K8KW10]

DAB radio to be standard in all new passenger cars
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2020/08/dab-radio-to-be-standard-in-all-new-passenger-cars/

DAB Digital Radio will be installed as standard in all new passenger vehicles by the end of this year following new regulations passed through Parliament.

The new legal regulations were approved to support the mandating of digital radios in passenger vehicles in the UK following a consultation by the Department for Transport relating to aspects of the European Electronic Communications Code (“EECC”) covering vehicles.

The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2020 will come into force on 1 September 2020 and implement the provisions of the EU Directive covering the compulsory fitment of digital radio in passenger cars and buses that come fitted with a radio.

The regulation specifies the fitment of digital terrestrial radio broadcasting, rather than IP, and includes a 4-month grace period granting automotive manufacturers until 21 December 2020 to meet the requirement.

The new regulation does not apply to second hand cars or commercial vehicles such as vans.

As of Q2 2020, 93.9% of new cars registered in the UK were fitted with DAB digital radio as standard, and the new regulation will require the remaining 6% of new cars to be fitted with digital radio. The regulation does not apply to commercial vehicles, which represent 5 million vehicles on the road in the UK. As of Q2 2020, 79% of commercial vehicles were fitted with DAB digital radio as standard, an increase from 62.8% in Q2 2019.

The Department for Transport’s new regulations, alongside the collaboration over recent years across industry, the DCMS, and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), will take the percentage of new cars fitted with digital radio as standard to the milestone of 100%.

Ford Ennals, CEO, Digital Radio UK, told RadioToday: “We welcome the Government mandate for digital radio to be fitted in all new cars sold in the UK from the end of 2020. It’s a significant milestone in UK radio’s transition to digital and will ensure that drivers will be able to receive the full range of brilliant digital stations available in their cars.

“It also reinforces the position of DAB as the primary radio broadcast technology alongside FM and wouldn’t have been possible without the massive support of the SMMT and the automotive manufacturers who have already increased DAB fitment to nearly 95%.”

 

[4K8KW10]

To be honest, who gives a monkeys about DAB in a car ? It's not like any of us are gliding along with no other sound that we can listen to the "purity" of DAB.
What actually matters is that we still have FM available at home.

Until some point when it will be switched off, once and for all, and for good. For the quality.

 

[4K8KW10]

DAB+ rollout isn’t as difficult as the move to DVB-T2 however since DAB and DAB+ stations can co-exist on the same multiplex. I ran a check recently from my local transmitter and I was surprised how many stations have moved to DAB+ now - 37% of all stations, leaving just mostly the “original” DAB stations (main absoluteRadio, classicFM, TalkSport, local radio, BBC etc) on the older standard. An argument for moving even these ones to DAB+ is that most are available on FM as a backup anyway. Unfortunately in the UK though DAB+ has been more about the broadcasters squeezing spectrum by using the more efficient AAC codec at a low rate, rather than boosting SQ at the same bitrate vs MP2 - so it’s not worth worrying too much about as a listener.

DAB in the UK since the beginning has always been criticised for its SQ - early adoption on MP2, low bitrates apart from Radio3 etc .. but in my opinion FM isn’t great either - stops at 15kHz sample rate and requires “sound enhancers” to restore that loss. Radio is radio, might as well switch all broadcasts to DAB when most tuners can support it.

Yes, this is a natural process (will take some years, though) - once all people are equipped with new DAB+ receivers which they will buy anyways because it's mandatory for the manufacturers to include them, then we will be all set to a 100% move to DAB+.

 

[4K8KW10]

How long do we think radio is going to carry on? DAB could have A very short shelf life given the move to streaming a bit like terrestrial TV services which I can’t see lasting long.

There is no moving to streaming because there are no standards for it and it is very expensive (monthly bills to providers that don't even work for radio broadcasting but for general internet access) for the consumer.

 

[4K8KW10]

I don't like to waste time in selecting my "own track listing". This is expensive, time consuming, uncomfortable and has severe limits with regards to access to content.

 

[4K8KW10]

Fine; streaming obviously isn't for you then, but that's okay.

Internet radio still gives you what standard radio from FM/DAB/DAB+, and so picking up on @alex2001's and extending it, since so many people have their phone in their hand then Internet radio is accessible easily and at no additional cost for many.

I have the Panasonic PMX94 DAB+ capable audio system. It doesn't work with wireless 2.4GHz/5GHz signals simply because it's not in its specifications list.
This audio system provides very high quality of the sound and I cannot imagine comparing its quality to any smartphone quality, which still needs proper mobile internet connection which I don't have.
Also, there are obviously other similar audio systems which do have both connection options but I don't think anything is easier or more convenient than the single click on the button to play DAB+.

Typical DAB multiplexes in the UK (local one varies a bit by region) - might be of interest. Ignore the reception info, i'm on the edge of coverage with a single element dipole antenna.

You need a bigger and more capable antenna.

 

[4K8KW10]

I thought you need a Yagi-Uda antenna, mounted on the highest possible for you point - tall building's roof or tall pillar/pole:

 

[4K8KW10]

Sorry for the poor quality of the photo - it's so because a colleague holds it in his hand while trying to find the most optimal position for a long-distance DAB+ signal.
The particular showcase is something like a 30-watt signal being broadcast over 140 km.

With this signal reception:



140 km and 30-watt - this Yagi is really good.

 

[4K8KW10]

very good

by the way how did you work out the 12B BBC mux is transmitted at 30-watts from your local transmitter ? are you sure it's not 30kW?

my "local" transmitter is 64.27kW across all 4 DAB multiplexes (not sure on exact distribution)

It's not a BBC mux but one testing mux in the Balkan countries region


Looking good in Switzerland. Smart and good people vote for the progress

Switzerland pulls forward the FM switch-off

Thanks to positive DAB+ listener numbers, radio stations plan to phase out FM broadcasting in 2022/2023
https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en...o-phase-out-fm-broadcasting-in-2022-2023.html

71 percent of the Swiss population now receive radio programmes digitally, while the proportion using only analogue FM transmissions has fallen to just 13 percent. On 27 August 2020, the radio sector thus presented its planned phase-out of FM transmissions, which is to take place in two stages between August 2022 (SRG) and January 2023 (private stations).

At the SwissRadioDay on 27 August 2020, the digital migration working group ‘AG DigiMig’ announced that – owing to positive signs from the market and to the trend in listener numbers – the radio industry is planning to press ahead with the deactivation of FM services. In an industry agreement signed a few days earlier, it was agreed that SRG would decommission its FM transmitters in August 2022 to make it easier for commercial operators to switch over. The private radio stations are then due to deactivate their FM transmitters in January 2023. The Verband Schweizer Privatradios (VSP), the Union Romande des Radios Régionales (RRR) and the Union nicht-gewinnorientierter Lokalradios (Unikom) are requesting the approval of their members by end-November 2020. If a majority of radio broadcasters as defined by AG DigiMig agree to the proposals put forward by these associations, the FM phase-out plan will become binding for all broadcasters. SRG has already agreed to the decommissioning proposal.

OFCOM to implement the radio industry’s decommissioning plan
In the last few years, the Federal Council has created the legal framework for the changeover from analogue FM technology to DAB+. During the transitional phase and through to the decommissioning of FM, moreover, it is providing radio broadcasters with substantial financial support for promoting DAB+. During a time window that is to last for several years, the Federal Council is leaving it to the radio industry to organise the changeover from FM to DAB+ itself. OFCOM has agreed that it will accept the decommissioning dates decided by the industry as a binding obligation and cancel the FM broadcasting licences with effect from the dates agreed.

71 percent listening digitally
Since autumn 2015, GfK Switzerland has been mandated by AG DigiMig to assess the level of radio usage in Switzerland every six months. The eleventh (spring 2020) survey showed that usage of digital radio has risen by 22 percentage points since 2015: for 71 out of 100 minutes of daily listening, radio listeners use digital means to receive broadcasts (DAB+: 32%, internet and cable TV: 32%). At the same time, FM usage has dropped by 22 percentage points to 29%. By June 2020, only 13 percent of the Swiss population were using analogue FM radio only.

DAB+ now the most popular form of reception in cars too
It is not only for listeners at home or at work that DAB+ is the most popular way to receive radio programmes. In cars – the last bastion of FM radio – DAB+ has also taken over from FM as the principal means of receiving radio broadcasts. Among motorists, reception of transmissions via DAB+ or internet radio now accounts for 55 percent of total usage.

Five-million barrier breached
According to surveys conducted by GfK, sales of DAB+ devices fell slightly to just under 250,000 – probably due to the corona pandemic. Since 2000, however, a total of 5.07 million of these radios have now been sold. What matters for the future is that almost all new vehicles are now being equipped with a DAB+ device.

 

[4K8KW10]

Another set.of figures that are likely to be bull crap and spin.

While four and a half years ago almost a quarter of the population reported using radio exclusively via analogue reception channels, this proportion has since shrunk by almost half to 13 percent. At the same time, the proportion of people using only digital channels has doubled since autumn 2015 from 18 to 36 percent. Since autumn 2015, GfK Switzerland, on behalf of the Working Group on Digital Migration, has been investigating the state of digital radio use in Switzerland every six months with an online survey and telephone interviews: Radio use was collected for the eleventh time in spring 2020; 2,625 people aged 15 and over were interviewed.

https://www.infosat.de/radio/dank-positiver-dab-zahlen-schweiz-plant-ukw-ausstieg-20222023