DDR3>DDR2 Performance Decrease...AMD Hexacore

[sastusbulbas]

@sastusbulbas

No offence but i really could not understand that post.....i hope it was for bigwayne only

No offence taken, it is really simple. You have a good CPU for what you want to do, you need a better motherboard. Once you have an overclocked dual core you can then evaluate or let us know what games are being bottlenecked by either the dual core or graphics.

You originally wanted a Quad with a minimum of what 3.2Ghz? Pretty specific so why? What will it do for your current games that 2 cores running at 3.8Ghz won't?

Why do you think you need to throw money at a new gaming rig when you are keeping DDR2-800 and your GTS-250? And AMD and Intel are bringing out new platforms next year?

It's only my opinion of course, you have at no point stated your complete system or the games you play. I just think you are reading too much into what people are telling you when a simple way to increase current performance is available while you decide on your future PC.

You are running a budget motherboard which will be holding back your complete system, for the price of a Friday night out you could upgrade it and overclock the pants out of it

 

[bongas]

@sastusbulbas

The advice you gave me.......in post no. 41....did you consider the options 2 , 3 and 4 in my post which is no.40

 

[gareth170]

sastusbulbas i wouldn't worry about it. some people on this forum get more leeway than others

(I actually saw no insults, I saw a small amount of banter and leg pulling).

i agree. but as i said some people on this forum get a lot more leeway than others, which is wrong.

 

[Big.Wayne]

[Off Topic]

Hello sastusbulbas,

To quote Bonga! "If i may stray from the topic and ask another question, would it be wrong?" As my post is in reference to this I would have thought your opinion on off topic a little off the mark

You may notice the thread title:

DDR3>DDR2 Performance Decrease...AMD Hexacore

Now while the primary importance here is that we get bongas questions answered its also nice to observe basic forum protocol on behalf of other people passing through . . . .

It's bongas thread and yes he can choose to lead the conversation wherever he pleases however it whether people who come into a thread to learn more about the performance differences between an AM3 processor running on both AM2+/DDR2 and AM3/DDR3 will be interested to read or indeed contribute to something that is pretty much unrelated to the Thread Title?

As keen as I am to help bongas understand a bit more about his "possible" options I am also keen to learn more about the subject in the topic, I would like to see more data about the differences between AM3/DDR2 and AM3/DDR3 . . .

I would go on to say that everything that is now being discussed here regarding LGA775 is essentially a duplicate of what has already been discussed here:

[LGA775] Board for Overclocking here

• as usual on this Forum the advice is throw away the old and spend spend spend
  
• I personally think the original OP is on a wild goose chase due to the "Upgrade bug" and AMD fanfare.
  
• AMD with DDR2 is a sideways step
  
• So I still advocate either upgrading the core 775 components, or selling up and going Quad AM3/DDR3
  
• I bought a Q9550

sastusbulbas, I do believe you may be more concerned with "justifying" your personal upgrade choice than helping bongas "consider" his options . . in bongas original [LGA775] Board for Overclocking thread you were advocating he essentially sold off his LGA775 DualCore/Mobo/DDR2-800 and replaced it with LGA775 QuadCore/Mobo/DDR2-1066 . . . much discussion was had and a lot of time and effort was made by the various contributers . . . . your viewpoint has now been updated as a result of this previous discussion . . . I am not here to make you feel you made the wrong upgrade choice but instead to answer bongas questions so he makes the "right" upgrade choice . . . if indeed he upgrades at all!

I do not feel as strongly about this matter as you seem to . . . and I would personally prefere not to have the same circular discussion carried across several threads . . . I'm trying to help bongas get the information he needs in a way that he can understand!

@sastusbulbas

No offence but i really could not understand that post.....

 

[Big.Wayne]

[Off Topic]

Newest Question:

WHAT IS THE best possible option for me to upgrade my current setup

Hey bongas,

It's not really considered good forum protocol to have multiple threads running discussing the exactly the same subject . . . as you know we have covered most of your questions in your previous thread . . .

[LGA775] Board for Overclocking here

Technically what you should do for the greatest effect is to take all the good information people have kindly given you . . . have a good "think" about it and then make a new thread with a "specific" new thread title . .

As much as I want to help you there are plenty of people on this forum who need help and advice and I would personally prefere to "spread the love" instead of giving the same person the same answer to the same questions in different threads . . . I hope I said that in a way that doesn't cause any ofference to you or anyone else! . .

Please feel free to continue canvassing opinions, you pretty much know all you need to know now . . . to either sit it out or wangle yourself an "upgrade"

Good luck!

 

[Someone]

@ CAT-THE-FIFTH that article relates to overclocking the cpu NB not the ht link speed which as I mentioned shown large gains in performance. There is a link in this HWbot article to a post by Bingo 13 @ extremesystems (he is the asus rep dealing with their bios updates) stating that keeping the HT Link speed the same as the cpu NB should increase performance but HWbot didnt find this as I also didnt during my overclocking.

@ bongas do you want this to be your only upgrade & last for 3 years or are you willing to continue upgrading parts over the years? If you are then as I see it you have a number of options with your current budget of £180:

1) Get a better socket 775 motherboard & overclock the cpu you have but this wont last you 3 years so you will need to upgrade the cpu at a later date (an overclocked q9400 would do).

2) Upgrade 775 motherboard and cpu now (as above)

3) Change to an AMD socked AM2+ or AM3 motherboard with a quad core. Use your current ram and upgrade that later & the cpu if you want. The 1st processor Big Wayne recommended in post 27 of your other thread was a good low cost option that will last you a while though you may want to spend a bit more on the mobo. This or this would be a good option as they should provide more overclocking headroom & will give you sata 3 & usb 3 if you need it in the next 3 years. With the money left & money you get from selling your current hardware you should have enough to get a better cpu cooler as well.

4) Dont change anything now & wait for the new AMD & intel processors. If their prices are to high they will cause a price drop on the current components so you may get more for your money. Or if you have gone for option 3 then you may be able to upgrade to a 6 core in 1 year when the replacement AMD processors are out due to the price drop.

Personally if I was in your position and didnt want to wait to upgrade then I would go for option 3 as it means that there is the option to upgrade the cpu at a later date if needed. With options 1 & 2 you wont be able to upgrade any further (unless you get a 775 processor that has a faster stock speed, but if you are overclocking there would be no real point). With option 3 you can upgrade to a 6 core if you ever wanted/needed to.

 

[bongas]

@Someone, This will be my only upgrade in 3 years...i think i am crystal clear

every one who says that to change the board to an LGA 775 one...i don't think that its a viable option because in the same price tag i can get an AM2+ board which would allow a headroom for even a six core...


@Big wayne...i would like to point it out to you that there is no such word "prefere"; the correct spelling are "prefer". (please note it)

And i beg you bigwayne please can you read the post 40 and then one last time answer my question.........please i am really looking forward to your answer.

 

[Big.Wayne]

Hello Someone,

3) Change to an AMD socked AM2+ or AM3 motherboard with a quad core. Use your current ram and upgrade that later & the cpu if you want. The 1st processor recommended in post 27 of your other thread was a good low cost option that will last you a while though you may want to spend a bit more on the mobo

I'm not sure bongas would need to spend much more on a good AM2+ mobo . . . if you refere back to post #27 in the other thread you will observe it stated "or AM2+ 785G if you can find one for the same price" . . . I bought the board below from OcUK for £57.00 . . for the money and "if" wanting to pursue the "overclocked" AM3 chip with DDR2 option it's a very compelling purchase . . .

ASUS M4A785D-M PRO (AM2+/DDR2)

This or this would be a good option as they should provide more overclocking headroom & will give you sata 3 & usb

Those are both great choices but sadly they are AM3/DDR3 motherboards which won't work with bongas existing DDR2-800 . . .

the correct spelling

Heh thanks bongas . . . as long as you understand what I mean and my bad spelling does not "technically" mislead you (i.e 2MHz vs 2GHz) then commenting on peoples spelling is generally considered bad form!

answer my question.........please

I've made an updated post for you in your original thread:

[LGA775] Board for Overclocking

 

[Someone]

Big Wayne you made a very good point there regarding the motherboards I linked to not supporting DDR2. Bongas sorry about the poor information I gave there.

I had a look in the list of supported cpus and the Asus board Big Wayne has shown above does support the 6 core processors (with the latest bios) so Bongas that will give you the option to upgrade the cpu later if you want. I will try to find some more motherboards tonight and let you know so that you have a few options to choose from.

@ Big Wayne have you tried overclocking on that board and if so how did you get on (just to get an idea of if the board will be a limiting factor for bongas though I know it also depends on the cpu & other components)?

 

[Muel]

I think those boards suffer pretty heavily from vdroop, so overclocking will get tricky. LLC can help to cancel this out, but it's still never perfect from what I've read.

 

[thingemajib]

heres an interesting idea, and i am purely speculating here so this might not be 100% accurate.

-socket 775 has long been replaced (note, replaced, not dead).
-graphics cards come and go stupidly fast. in 3 years we will have gone through at -least two more generations.
-DDR3 is not really slated to be replaced until something like 2014-2015 (ddr4 i believe shows up around 2012, meaning a year or before the mainstream starts to take interest).

My thoughts are to find a reasonably priced p45 board with ddr3 ram slots (there are definately ddr2/ddr3 hybrids, but im not sure if there are any native ddr3 p45 boards ... AMD person here ). Buy yourself some decent DDR3 RAM and use the resulting combo to clock the nuts off your 7400. Specific motherboards/RAM products dont immeadietely spring to mind, but im sure others can (unless everyone else thinks this is a stupid idea...)

This way, in three years time, you'll already have the RAM ready to reuse.

Just out of interest, what are the rest of the system specs?

 

[Someone]

bongas I have found 2 additional boards that you could use with your ddr2:

Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3

Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD3P

Games are already fully using 2 cores and starting to use more so I dont think that a dual core will last 3 years for gaming. The E7400 is @ 2.8GHz & bongas has stated that he cant play some of the games he wants to because they max out the cpu. Even if it was clocked to 4GHz I think you will only get an extra year out of it before being in the same situation & bongas wants this to be the only upgrade in the next 3 years. Remember that both intel & AMD are now focusing on increasing the core count of their cpus & soon even the low end cpus will be quad cores so games developers will properly code for 4+ cores. Once that happens (which I think will be in the next 1.5 years but that is just my estimate) a dual core just wont cut it.

My most recent upgrade was from a E8600 @ 4.5GHz to the 1090T in sig & I noticed a difference as soon as I fired up the new system even before overclocking (so at the time the new cpu was running 1.3GHz slower than the old one). In games like modernwarfare especially if I was host then I would have some stuttering during heavy action as the old cpu just couldnt cut it. The new system has no problem & the only things that has changed were the cpu & mobo (I am using the same gpu, ram, ssd, psu etc). Because of this I dont think dual core cpus will be able to play new games for much longer so the OP is better off getting a quad core.

 

[sastusbulbas]

[Off Topic]

Hello sastusbulbas,

You may notice the thread title:

DDR3>DDR2 Performance Decrease...AMD Hexacore

It's bongas thread and blah blah blah....

sastusbulbas, I do believe you may be more concerned with "justifying" your personal upgrade choice than blah blah blah....

I do not feel as strongly about this matter as you seem to blah blah blah....

Cheers Wayne, yes, yes and no, and blah blah blah

 

[bongas]

@ thingemajib

Specs are:

e7400
dg41rq intel board
2 x 2gb kingston value ram default clock at 800MHz
GTS 250
Cooler master 460 watts PSU
Cooler Master elite 330 case
250 GB Western Digital HDD....7200 Rpm.
LCD display with a maximum of 1680x1050 resolution.

 

[Theophany]

Save your money, wait a year and buy an AM3+ motherboard and AMD Bulldozer CPU. 1090T is money spent on what is essentially now dead architecture and what's the point in changing to a motherboard architecture (AM2/+) that has already been superseded and will also be dead in a year's time?

Don't waste money on dying technology. The 1090T may be a new CPU, but AMD are just sating the market until Bulldozer is ready for the big league. The silicon is already in production and in use on AMD's campus. If you can wait a year, wait a year.


P.S.
I've spent a long time on the MacRumors forums, where anybody will tell you "wait for the next one" if you ask what Mac to buy. This is not the typical 'everything will be better in a year' argument - Athlons and Phenoms are still based on the old Athlon64 architecture, they're ancient. Bulldozer is a whole new architecture and is very likely to even the playing field which has been dominated by Intel for a good while now. This isn't waiting a year for Ford to release a new bodyshape for their flagship car, it's like changing from a Cortina to a Mondeo. The change will be massive and frankly spending £180 now will get you either a great chip and crap board, a crap chip and great board or a mediocre chip and mediocre board and the performance increase will be negligible. Not worth it IMHO.

 

[bongas]

@Theophany.....i like your premise but disagree with the conclusion.

Yes i will probably wait for a year until the bulldozer come out but will not buy it but instead i will opt for a P II x4 hence taking advantage of the price drop.

Because i have already stated that the cpu should only last me till 2013 July~August, and i am pretty sure that a bulldozer can pull all the way till 2015. (A rough estimate)

 

[bongas]

Heh thanks bongas . . . as long as you understand what I mean and my bad spelling does not "technically" mislead you (i.e 2MHz vs 2GHz) then commenting on peoples spelling is generally considered bad form!

Correct me if i am wrong, i think that the people of UK are really carefull of thier spellings and English as compared to the Americans who mostly spell words wrong and seem not to care about them.

 

[sastusbulbas]

Guys please donot argue among yourselves rather concentrate on the question which I have asked.

Newest Question:

WHAT IS THE best possible option for me to upgrade my current setup.

NOTES:
1)I can 'tolerate' my current CPU for a maximum of 1 year.
2)I am not happy with my CPU ,e7400 because whenever i play games such as Assasins Creed 2 , Dragon age Origins, even Splinter Cell Conviction; my CPU usage is 100%. For me its an anomaly. Further i did not even think of playong the latest games such as mass effect 2 , Command an Conquer 4 and some old ones like FSX and MW2 because these games use my CPU at 100% .
3)Buying a used board is not appreciated so is the rams but i might buy a used CPU.
4)It is crucial to note that the system which i will be upgrading to SHOULD NOT LAST longer than 3 years.(thats right i said "should not")In a more explainatory way, I would imply it as a cheap system sufficient enough to lasts for 3 years Only.(the lasting of the PC is refering to GAMAING ONLY........ONLY GAMING.)It is noteworthy that my current CPU is not sufficient for gaming.

MY BUDGET IS : POUNDS 180.

Remember price should be according to a 3 year gaming system only. ie After 3 years its gaming power becomes as my current PC's gaming performance . (which is bad)

Well seen as we have went off topic well and truly and that the original thread the off topic is reffering to is being ignored.....

Bongas,

The games you play do not seem to be hindered by my E6300 even at stock though I do sometimes OC it, this includes when I used it with PC-6400 and a mild OC along with games like all Supreme Commander titles and all C&C titles, Dawn of War Etc. I also set all my details to very high or max. GPU is a Sapphire HD4870 1gb Toxic Vapour X thingy.

Your flawed logic of liking the idea of a 2nd hand CPU but not memory or motherboard...well says it all.

You have £180, can you sell your current system and add funds to this? I think even a new P45 with an OC'd E7400 would give just as good a performance as budget AMD/AM2+ but you would not want to take a chance on second hand kit, so you have to decide how much money and effort a few differences in benchies are. Clearly something is wrong with your current system if it is posing game problems due to CPU usage being a bottleneck?

Clearly the only option you have is as Big Wayne suggested and a budget £180 AMD/AM2+ platform with your current DDR2. It could fund a Phenom 2 X4 with an AM2+ board if you can get it posted to you at OcUK prices? Shame you can't stretch to AM3/DDR3 though.

Out of interest, where are you located?

 

[Theophany]

@theophany.....i like your premise but disagree with the conclusion.

It's cool, just hope you're pleased with whatever you end up buying! Despite my post, I really do like the AMD architecture, even if it is way old.

 

[bongas]

sastusbulbas

After selling my ram , cpu and board the total budget will be pounds 230 ~ 240

i dont think there is something wrong....the main reason is that my brother, he has an i7 920 with a 9500 gt......when he plays assasins creed 2 .....he can max it ou, My PC with a gts 250 can also max out the game.......but unfortunately with both cores at 100%......and my GOD i AM AMAZED THAT HIS CPU DOESN'T EVEN USE 20%?????????

Can you explain that....


i live in Pakistan......where we dont have diversifacation of cpu components....e.g
NO brands of CPU coolers except for : COOLER MASTER, ASUS (rare) , Xigmatek (few)
No G-Skill rams, or OCZ or blah..blah blah.....ONly kingston and corsair.
Suprisingly only No gigabyte boards ........


i can go on but i think i have described my country enough from a GAMERS point of view.