Debating aquarium layout...

Is the tank ~24C because you have a heater keeping that warm?
What happens if you lower the thermostat to 20C?

Bare in mind heater thermostats are very crude and not calibrated, in my collection of heaters I have some that when set at 20C will try and maintain 25C and others set at 32C can only maintain ~25C. ;)

Otos are very social fish, they live in 1000+ groups in the wild, if you get them you should be looking at 6+ but ideally 10+. Check out PlanetCatfish to read about the various species in the hobby.

Your WCMM may well "appear happy" at 24C, they will be hyperactive and depending upon age may try and breed. Keeping them that warm all year round will knock chunks off their lifespan, these fish can cope with a very gradual cooling to ~5C and would be perfectly fine with an average temp of ~15C. Most fishkeepers can put this species in an unheated tank without issues.

Your "Hong Kong Plec" comes from a very specialist environment, with a lot of water current and loads of surface rippling that keep the oxygen levels well above 8mg/l, these "hillstream loaches" have evolved to live in conditions similar to you having ~6000lph of water movement in your 200l (note this would be overkill for your WCMM ;) ). You should be aiming for ~2500lph in your 200l as a compromise
Fish like these are thrive in tank setups far from "run of the mill," just like Chaetostoma spp. (Rubbernose Plecs) and the many fish that come from the Malebo Pool area of the Congo River like Steatocranus spp.; Synodontis brichardi; Euchilichthys spp. etc.
 
UTmaniac said:
Is the tank ~24C because you have a heater keeping that warm?
What happens if you lower the thermostat to 20C?

Bare in mind heater thermostats are very crude and not calibrated, in my collection of heaters I have some that when set at 20C will try and maintain 25C and others set at 32C can only maintain ~25C. ;)

Otos are very social fish, they live in 1000+ groups in the wild, if you get them you should be looking at 6+ but ideally 10+. Check out PlanetCatfish to read about the various species in the hobby.

Your WCMM may well "appear happy" at 24C, they will be hyperactive and depending upon age may try and breed. Keeping them that warm all year round will knock chunks off their lifespan, these fish can cope with a very gradual cooling to ~5C and would be perfectly fine with an average temp of ~15C. Most fishkeepers can put this species in an unheated tank without issues.

Your "Hong Kong Plec" comes from a very specialist environment, with a lot of water current and loads of surface rippling that keep the oxygen levels well above 8mg/l, these "hillstream loaches" have evolved to live in conditions similar to you having ~6000lph of water movement in your 200l (note this would be overkill for your WCMM ;) ). You should be aiming for ~2500lph in your 200l as a compromise
Fish like these are thrive in tank setups far from "run of the mill," just like Chaetostoma spp. (Rubbernose Plecs) and the many fish that come from the Malebo Pool area of the Congo River like Steatocranus spp.; Synodontis brichardi; Euchilichthys spp. etc.
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Hi thanks for the reply.

I thought the temperature range for the WCMM was 18-26 (although they can handle lower). They don't seem hyperactive, they are pretty chilled most of the time. Although they do seem to like to get caught in the flow of the powerhead and whizz about a little. When they went from the room temperature tank to the heated one they were whizzing about more, but I just put that down to them having much more flow than before and enjoying the new environment. (Possibly nievely)

I think they are all the same sex, so breeding won't be an issue.

The tank is that warm because I have a heater in there set to 24, but the tank is at 24.4-24.8 depending how long the lights have been on.

With the plec, or spotty as my son calls him lol, I have the spray bar angled up and pointed at the surface so probably 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface is constantly rippling.

The filter pushes 1000lph and the powerhead 900, but I have one that pushes 1200 that I use for water changes which I could put in instead if it is preferable?

I went down for another chat to my LFS after work and they advised against getting the cardinals now and instead recommended the harlequins which I wanted anyways so I brought 6 home with me and they are exploring the tank now :) after a couple of hours they look much more colourful than they did in the shop and when I first put them in.

Ideally I want more, but don't want an ammonia spike.

I fed my existing fish before I put them in and waited for the food to go.

Will feed them all again on Sunday.

CO2 arriving Monday

Cheers,

G
 
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Quick couple of questions about a water change, firstly, if my water parameters are perfect shall I just do one anyway for the sake of it?

Also... I am going to change 50 litres of my 200 litres.

I have had the 50 litres sat over night with a pump and a heater in it in a 50 litre barrel. My question is regards to temperature.... I have the heat at 20.1c at the moment, but the heat in my tank is 24.6c right now.

I have been checking the temperature on the barrel all morning and it seems to have topped out at 20.1c so I have turned the thermostat up to 26 from 24 to see if it will increase.

My question is, if I'm changing just over 1/4 of the tank, will a 3-4 degree temperature different be all good or should I wait and hope this cheapo heater will get it to 24.6c?

Cheers,

G
 
I waited for it to hit 21.9c and then pumped it back into the tank. General temperature dropped to 23.7c so that's all good I feel :)

Was the easiest water change I have ever done! Didn't even have to get my hands wet :)

Syphoned the old water right out the window and the powehead pumped the contents of the barrel into the tank for me :) then I just shoved everything in the empty barrel and put it in the garage :)

Job done.
 
Even with your newly acquired Harlequin Rasboras, you can safely adjust your heater thermostat so that it maintains 22C.

When you see fish profiles on reliable sites like SeriouslyFish or PlanetCatfish, which show a wide range of temperatures, do not be fooled like many that this means you can place them in a tank permanently at one place in that range. Often such fish are "temperate" and should only be kept at the higher part of that range for a short "summer season" which is equally offset by a "winter period" of similar length... Far too many fishkeepers keep the likes of WCMM; Zebra Danios; Redline Torpedo Barbs; Odessa Barbs; Weather Loaches etc. in tanks that are significantly warmer on average than ideal and the fish suffer in the long term.

How big your weekly water changes are dpends upon what nitrate level is in your water source to begin with, the tank stocking and how much protein (food) you give the fish. My tap water comes with ~40ppm nitrates and a lot of my fish get food with 30-45% protein, so I do ~50-66% weekly water changes to try and keep tank nitrates (which eventually become toxic to all fish) below 70ppm.
 
Thanks for the reply :) would 22c be good for all my fish?

Including if I get ottos, penguin tetras, cardinals and endlers?

Cheers,

G
 
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Guru said:
Thanks for the reply :) would 22c be good for all my fish?

Including if I get ottos, penguin tetras, cardinals and endlers?

Cheers,

G
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22C (which will likely get warmer as the ambient room temp gets warmer in summer) is really too warm for the WCMM in my opinion. If this was a ~3 month "summer season" period then they would be fine, but having this temp as a minimum which will more than likely hit 25-29C in any sort of of semi-decent weather spell in British summer, will do them no favours.

Neale Monks, in the link given by arc@css, is a great fountain of knowledge in the fishkeeping world, especially for oddball fish species. 22C is too low for Cardinal Tetras, they are more mid-high end tropical fish that should be kept at ~25-28C... This is too high for your "hillstream loach."

Roma 200 tanks may hold 200l, but they are quite squat by design, compared for example to my ~310l 6-foot. I feel you are trying to squeeze too many social fish species into this tank, rather than having a few decent sized groups of 10+. Some social fish are very skittish in low numbers, others like Penguin/ False Penguin Tetras become nippy and try to include other species in their hierachy. Having lots of small groups looks far worse than a few larger ones, plus the fish will behave more naturally.

A major key to successful, responsible fishkeeping is to identify your "must have fish" that you desperately want and is suitable for the tank you want to fill. Then find fish species that are compatible with them in terms of factors like temp range; water flow; aggression; feeding (veg/meat and how pig-like they are when food is added) etc. ;)
 
I did 100% want some Cardinals, but it looks like I can't. May just leave it as is if I'm in danger of overstocking.
 
Guru said:
Thank you for that site :) It is very informative!

Looks like Neons would be a better choice than Cardinals as I am not in a soft water area.
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How have you read that link and made that conclusion? Neale specifically writes:-
"2. Neons will not live long in hard, alkaline water."

Water hardness was something I should have put on that list of key things for successful fishkeeping.

What are your gH and kH water stats? I have gH 13 kH 11 (moderately hard) water on the south coast, so very few South American fish live in my tanks.
 
Oh lol! **** knows what I was reading! I thought I read that the cardinals required opposite things in terms of temperature and water hardness. Could have sworn I read that Neons were suitable for moderately hard slightly acidic water.

Will check my hardness when I get home.
 
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Why no elegant backdrop? I always love how fish tanks are therapeutic.



Damn!

 
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Cardinals and Neons are not the strongest fish for a cycle if your planning on it, at least use Danios if you insist on doing it.
 
Black void. It would work well as it draws peoples focus on the tank/items itself rather than seeing through the tank.

Or! Get a black one that looks like black stone/rocky cavern. Obviously this persons is real.

DSC01243.jpg

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=217224

http://www.cichlids.com/tank-examples/gallery/Lee_Raymond-3.html
 
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Guru said:
Quick couple of questions about a water change, firstly, if my water parameters are perfect shall I just do one anyway for the sake of it?
Click to expand...

I think if going by the book, the rule of thumb is 20% water change every 2 weeks but I'll be honest I've been keeping fish for nearly 25 years I have never done this more than once a month. I do however feed my fish every other day.

I match my water with the temperature of my tank - digital thermometer is the easiest way. I'm sure some would disagree but 1oC difference has never caused a problem for me, plus I don't just chuck the water in, I pour it out evenly across the tank which given the volume removed/replaced doesn't cause any major temperature fluctuations.

If you want to do things in a 'best practice' way then 20% - 25% change every 2 weeks would be good. I would replace 5-10% of that water with RO (Reverse Osmosis) water which some LFS provide which shouldn't cost more than a pound or two.

Regarding tank temperatures, for any tank longer than 3' I use two thermostats, one at each end. It not only gives a more constant temperature in the tank but also puts less of a strain on a single thermostat so hopefully should last longer. Something else I picked up was to use a bigger thermostat than your tank needs, again it puts less of a strain than using those really small ones.

I've never been a fan of textured backgrounds but it does depend on what you're trying to do I suppose. Saying that I managed to get my current tank for free (4' Jewel Vision) and it already had a blue background on it (proper vinyl rather than those plastic roll kinds) so I probably wouldn't go for anything less than that.
 
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