Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20

Trojan Horse

Trojan Horse

Trojan Horse

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I have a choice between going to a RG uni in the top 20 and getting a Computer Science degree, or alternatively, getting an apprenticeship which funds a worse degree from a lower uni.

I wanted to know, what would you guys do? What are the pros and cons of each and will an apprenticeship hinder my career progression with top firm.

Pros of Apprenticeship:
  • No tuition fees (free Digital & Technology Solutions degree from Man Met / Aston)
  • 70K upon graduation (5yrs pay)
  • 5yrs Work Experience
  • Jump start into competitive careers eg defence

Pros of Degree:
  • Stronger degree from well reputed university
  • Degree completed in less time
  • University experience
  • 3/4 more years of Formal education
  • Can go onto doing MSc at Oxbridge
  • Diverse networking
  • Lead societies, software side projects, internships
  • Chance to get a scholarship anyway
  • Progression to Top 4 (Microsoft, Apple, etc.)

What do you guys think? I've managed to get entry lowered to uni so grade requirements are pretty similar to both (AAB vs BBC on apprenticeships)
 
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Get the experience, no one particularly gives a **** about your degree once you've got decent work experience at most they'll just want you to have one that isn't a 3rd.
 
Go for the apprenticeship. If I could go back 3 years, I would have not gone to uni. Granted there is the silver lining of meeting my partner here who I love dearly, but otherwise it's been a waste of time and money.
 
MichaelAwkward said:
Go for the apprenticeship. If I could go back 3 years, I would have not gone to uni. Granted there is the silver lining of meeting my partner here who I love dearly, but otherwise it's been a waste of time and money.
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What uni did you go to? Was it a poor uni or a poor degree that turned you away?

Also don't most entry level software engineering roles ask, quite specifically for a numerate degree like CS. I'm sure digital and technology solutions is Business & Software Dev but it must not have any reputation with employers and so getting a job outside of my apprenticeship would be quite hard, I assume?
 
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It would help if you were more realistic with your pros of the degree.

Also, how old are you?

It seems to me, to really boil down to two things:

1. Money
2. Experience

The apprenticeship is free and you have a good start from it. You do however, miss out on the prestige aspect as well as the full university experience.

The degree on the otherhand gives you the prestige and university experience but you'll end up with lots of debt. The other pros aren't certainties are they?

Here's the thing: prestige only counts for anything in helping you stand out against other candidates at the start of your career. And the prestige thing? It's a form of institutional snobbery, that's all. If you're landing a good job and solid experience by going to a less prestigious institution then so what? Surely that puts you far ahead of those who went to university?

If you go to a more prestigious institution, you'll get the full-time university experience -- which isn't really all it's cracked up to be -- and leave with a degree and ultimately be in debt and fighting to be seen like other candidates. The apprenticeship is the more sensible option for you, but if you want the experience and ego massage then go do the degree.

Once you're in a career, it's all about the experience and your degree counts for nothing.
 
Trojan Horse said:
What uni did you go to? Was it a poor uni or a poor degree that turned you away?
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Southampton (Uni of, not Solent :p).

Possibly the degree that's the issue (Population and Geography BSc), but even if I'd done something more practical like computing or accounting I still think a good apprenticeship is the better option.

The problem with my degree is that essentially it's only worthwhile if I want to go into a general graduate career (civil service or whatever) or academia. I've come to conclusion that I want to do neither.

The quality of teaching isn't great either. It may be better on other courses, but for most of my modules lecturers simply read off powerpoints (which they themselves haven't made in a lot of cases). Tutorials fall flat because they're often delivered by PhD students earning a bit of extra money. I've learnt more from private audiences with certain academics organised through my own initiative than most of my modules. I suspect that there is a massive shake up coming to the higher education system if most university courses are of the same quality and type. Jumping through hoops for £9k a year? No thanks.

I'm probably going to end up self-employed doing something completely unrelated (currently exploring import/export or property) with my partner.
 
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No tuition fees and still walk away with a degree, and more importantly 5 years work experience....seems like a no brainer to me.
yes you miss the uni experience but all that boils down to is meeting new people and getting drunk, if your somewhat sociable there's no reason not to still have that even if your doing your degree part time.

Your also not going to get into the top 4 on a degree alone, a lot of that is to do with your skills/ideas outside of the 'norm' . Source: worked at MS for 1.5 years.
 
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Trojan Horse said:
I have a choice between going to a RG uni in the top 20 and getting a Computer Science degree, or alternatively, getting an apprenticeship which funds a worse degree from a lower uni.

I wanted to know, what would you guys do? What are the pros and cons of each and will an apprenticeship hinder my career progression with top firm.

Pros of Apprenticeship:
  • No tuition fees (free Digital & Technology Solutions degree from Man Met / Aston)
  • 70K upon graduation (5yrs pay)
  • 5yrs Work Experience
  • Jump start into competitive careers eg defence

Pros of Degree:
  • Stronger degree from well reputed university
  • Degree completed in less time
  • University experience
  • 3/4 more years of Formal education
  • Can go onto doing MSc at Oxbridge
  • Diverse networking
  • Lead societies, software side projects, internships
  • Chance to get a scholarship anyway
  • Progression to Top 4 (Microsoft, Apple, etc.)

What do you guys think? I've managed to get entry lowered to uni so grade requirements are pretty similar to both (BBB vs BBC on apprenticeships)
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Nix said:
It would help if you were more realistic with your pros of the degree.

Also, how old are you?

It seems to me, to really boil down to two things:

1. Money
2. Experience

The apprenticeship is free and you have a good start from it. You do however, miss out on the prestige aspect as well as the full university experience.

The degree on the otherhand gives you the prestige and university experience but you'll end up with lots of debt. The other pros aren't certainties are they?

Here's the thing: prestige only counts for anything in helping you stand out against other candidates at the start of your career. And the prestige thing? It's a form of institutional snobbery, that's all. If you're landing a good job and solid experience by going to a less prestigious institution then so what? Surely that puts you far ahead of those who went to university?

If you go to a more prestigious institution, you'll get the full-time university experience -- which isn't really all it's cracked up to be -- and leave with a degree and ultimately be in debt and fighting to be seen like other candidates. The apprenticeship is the more sensible option for you, but if you want the experience and ego massage then go do the degree.

Once you're in a career, it's all about the experience and your degree counts for nothing.
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I'm 18. Know nothing about anything, that's why I'm asking here!

Do you mind if I asked what range of salary you're on, what you did at uni and where at?

Only things that worry me about the apprenticeship are time constraints. It's a 37.5 hour week, and you spend 1 day / 5 at uni, whilst the other 4 you work. It
Must get really hard to do well at both? I'm also a gym fanatic, I don't know how to fit time in. Mainly
The idea of entering work at 18, forever, is what's scaring me.

My other problem is progression into higher roles. Would I be able to just as easily become a Lead Dev or something in 5-10 years time as my graduate counterpart? Would it be harder, easier?
 
Apprenticeship every day of the week mate

What additional qualifications will the company give you outside of the degree?
 
I don't work in your field but if I'm looking for someone to join my team, the priorities are:-

Personality > Experience > Education level > Education venue

You will already have a job with the apprenticeship. Should you choose to try and get a new job later and explained why you had made that choice, it would be a massive plus in my eyes

If you go with the good Uni (and by that you'd better mean top 20 globally, not nationally; or it isn't even worth talking about) then you will need to excel and even then be faced with massive competition for jobs from others in exactly the same situation.

And we are talking computer science here, not law. Think of your competion

And as Nix has just said above, "Once you're in a career, it's all about the experience and your degree counts for nothing.". That is very true.
 
Abraxaz1 said:
Apprenticeship every day of the week mate

What additional qualifications will the company give you outside of the degree?
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Ill link you to some of the companies that are doing the degree apprenticeship scheme. It's a new government scheme that got released earlier this year and so it's got pretty poor press - lucky I even found it, to be honest.

CapGemini - https://www.uk.capgemini.com/careers/your-career-path/apprentices
Thales -
Firebrand -
Bright Future -
CGI -

I'm really eager to get on the scheme with an employer like GCHQ, Lloyds, IBM. The press releases, and newspapers, all state that these "trailblazer" companies are in fact opening up degree apprenticeship schemes, but they're totally non existent or closed down. Can anyone help me find some other companies?

I've applied to 3-4 last week and have had my first response today, now I have to complete some of those psychometric tests that everybody loves.

For reference - the degree I want to do at top 20 is CompSci at Newcastle Uni - opinions?
 
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I'm 24, just a year into a graduate job in a different field to you. If there was an apprenticeship route in what I do though, I'd have taken it.
 
Okay OP, let's frame it this way:

It's basically a toss up between a hypothetical lifestyle and enormous debt or getting your foot firmly in the door and no debt.

The sensible option here is the apprenticeship. How much debt would university leave you now? Around £30k+, right?

That is a lot of money. Like, a seriously big amount. I know you might not really appreciate it as it's a hypothetical and the done thing, but it's something you'll have to pay back some day. Your apprenticeship is going to not only give you a whopping head-start in your career so you'll climb ladders faster, it is saving you £30k+ and giving you a golden hello of £70k? That money will be extremely beneficial for you when you get it -- you'll be able to get a really good mortgage for example and get your life together instead of being stuck at home with mum and dad which happens to many graduates.

Ask yourself: why do you want to go to university? Is it for the lifestyle or is it for your future prospects? If it's the former, you're paying lots of money for that luxury. If it's the latter, then why do you need to go to a top 20 if you already have your in?

Let's also frame it this way: I'm 29, I have a degree and I didn't get to do an apprenticeship. I was unlucky enough to graduate at a really crappy time, but I'm still struggling to get a career sorted. It is hard. It is really, really hard. You are sidestepping a lot of grief with your apprenticeship.
 
Trojan Horse said:
Ill link you to some of the companies that are doing the degree apprenticeship scheme. It's a new government scheme that got released earlier this year and so it's got pretty poor press - lucky I even found it, to be honest.

CapGemini - https://www.uk.capgemini.com/careers/your-career-path/apprentices
Thales -
Firebrand -
Bright Future -
CGI -

I'm really eager to get on the scheme with an employer like GCHQ, Lloyds, IBM. The press releases, and newspapers, all state that these "trailblazer" companies are in fact opening up degree apprenticeship schemes, but they're totally non existent or closed down. Can anyone help me find some other companies?

I've applied to 3-4 last week and have had my first response today, now I have to complete some of those psychometric tests that everybody loves.
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Yeah be careful with those schemes, we had something similar with my uni, a local college and the government sponsoring an apprenticeship scheme which looked brilliant, until funding dried up and it was cancelled. Fantastic experience for those who managed to complete it in time, no idea what happened to junior years on it as my year was the last.
 
Nix said:
Okay OP, let's frame it this way:

It's basically a toss up between a hypothetical lifestyle and enormous debt or getting your foot firmly in the door and no debt.

The sensible option here is the apprenticeship. How much debt would university leave you now? Around £30k+, right?

That is a lot of money. Like, a seriously big amount. I know you might not really appreciate it as it's a hypothetical and the done thing, but it's something you'll have to pay back some day. Your apprenticeship is going to not only give you a whopping head-start in your career so you'll climb ladders faster, it is saving you £30k+ and giving you a golden hello of £70k? That money will be extremely beneficial for you when you get it -- you'll be able to get a really good mortgage for example and get your life together instead of being stuck at home with mum and dad which happens to many graduates.

Ask yourself: why do you want to go to university? Is it for the lifestyle or is it for your future prospects? If it's the former, you're paying lots of money for that luxury. If it's the latter, then why do you need to go to a top 20 if you already have your in?

Let's also frame it this way: I'm 29, I have a degree and I didn't get to do an apprenticeship. I was unlucky enough to graduate at a really crappy time, but I'm still struggling to get a career sorted. It is hard. It is really, really hard. You are sidestepping a lot of grief with your apprenticeship.
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The apprenticeship is 16.5K p/y and I think rises every year. At the end of 5 you make around 70k in total, or more with pay rises. One of my reasons is that CS grads can make a lot more. IBM, ARM, Accenture grads make £30k starting. CS is a well paid career and I am afraid of short handing myself for the short term when university could be the better career for me in the long term.

I would ask my school advisors, except I doubt that any of them have much in depth knowledge of the IT / sSftware Dev industry. Also doesn't help that my school is also flooded haha.

Also, now that I look at it, the company of the apprenticeship is probably what's bothering me the most. I would leap at a chance with IBM/GCHQ/Lloyds/Tech/Defense firms as their work is incredibly fascinating. Other places look dull in comparison.
 
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You shouldn't be scared about starting work :p Sure, it's daunting, but it's gotta happen eventually. Uni's great though if you want to live a cushioned, sheltered life style for another 4+ years to delay adult hood. People are willing to pay thousands just to have that luxury :p

Apprenticeships, especially in the IT related field, takes the cake imo. Experience trumps all. Sure, maybe some HR will prefer a "proper" degree at face value, but most of the time once you get past that stage it's all about prior knowledge/experience/independent projects/etc.
 
You're pinning your hopes on a lot of what ifs, as has already been said even going to a top university with a good degree in no way guarantees you any sort of well paid grad job.

I wish I could go back and avoid the debt and build up a solid amount of relevant work experience.
 
I'm a senior network guy at a very large firm. The lowest paid members of the team, adjusting for age, are the guys with degrees.

Nobody gives a damn about what your degree is in or from where once you've got your foot in the door - it is all about experience and attitude.
 
If you have solid experience and a degree, you will absolutely have the edge over any graduate without.

CS may be well paid, but there are many, many roads that lead to Rome. Don't get weighed down too much on the degree having to be CS as opposed to D&T solutions. Providing the content on your course is relevant and you learn on the job, it will be absolutely fine. I don't think I've ever seen a grad scheme that said your degree must be in CS as opposed to being in that general area.

Most grad jobs just want you to have a degree and be able to prove you can do the other stuff they want. If you can do that, then you're fine.

Do not underestimate how valuable experience is.
 
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