Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20

I don't see a wrong option on either side.

I would echo a concern about the apprenticeship schemes rely on funding, if the employer pulls that funding and you haven't finished, you're left in a bit of a lurch. Whereas with a degree, you don't have that potential issue.

However i must say, if you go the degree route, you MUST take the "sandwich course" and fit an internship in before your final year. Pay on this is slightly better than what you seem to get on the apprenticeship scheme, however it is only around 12 months. But this experience is immensely valuable and will help you push to the front when applying for jobs. I work for one of the top IT companies, and we strongly favour our own interns above other applicants - regardless if external applicants have achieved 1st class honours degrees.

Thinking back over the last 5 years or so, the conversion rate from Intern to a FT employee is actually quite high. That's exactly how i managed to secure my role.

EDIT: The big problem i've noticed since graduating from Uni is that the computer-science + related disciplines are starting to become over saturated, which means competition for graduate placements is very tough. I've been through some assessment days where teamed activities come first and if the team doesn't do particularly well, you're not even invited to the interview stage. It is brutal, and personally i think the entire aspect of the assessment days is dreadful, the amount of decent talent they chuck out without proper assessment is astonishing. But i do understand at the end of the day, if they have 5,000 applications for a graduate scheme with only 50 places, they need to be brutal in sifting through the queue.
 
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It's apples and oranges really. A good apprenticeship will see you well, as will a good degree.

As has been said, a strong degree with a placement year or with some part time work / experience in the sector is probably the hovis approach (best of both).
 
Only things that worry me about the apprenticeship are time constraints. It's a 37.5 hour week, and you spend 1 day / 5 at uni, whilst the other 4 you work. It
Must get really hard to do well at both? I'm also a gym fanatic, I don't know how to fit time in.

37.5 hours a week is a normal 9-5 job, nothing out of the ordinary there and something you'll likely have to put up with for the next few decades I'm afraid.
 
Also be prepared to shed a little tear when you see your retirement date printed on your contract, uni did not prepare me for that part of getting a job :D
 
Also im pretty sure degrees are a bit less worthless than what everyone here
Makes them out to be - no one would be willing to fork 80K if they were all as crap as you guys made them out to be! I understand that there's over saturation of the graduate market but a degree would also give me flexibility in CS and allows me to see what route I would specialise in eg. Networks, security, AI, biocomputing, games.. I don't even know what I want to do so that's probably why I'm leading to Uni, I guess they'll give me a proper foundation in programming and code, but of course the employer could do exactly that too...

degrees are just a stepping stone, experience will be thing that decides the rest.
i sadly don't have a degree in the field i work in. I did an apprenticeship back in Switzerland. However when i moved to the UK in 2008 everybody wanted me to have a degree in the field i work in, so i didn't get a job, but looking at current job offers it seems to have changed quite a lot, where it could be nice to have one but it is not required anymore, they rather have people with experience.
 
Diverse networking
Lead societies, software side projects, internship

you can do these (and better) in the apprenticeship too you know.

cause you'll alredy be with a company you get to go to way cooler events.
 
I have a slightly different take on this from most of the above. My experience is that if you're looking to enhance your early career prospects, the apprenticeship would be my recommendation because it leaves career starters rather more grounded in the real world.

However, there's a catch. Over about the last 20 years or so, there's been an increasing tendency towards a glass ceiling. Assuming you want to be in IT, sooner or later careers move from "coal face" IT into IT management and that is where the glass ceiling hits. Initially a strong CV was sufficient but as increasing numbers have that, competitive pressures look for other ways to differentiate and I've seen an increasing tendency first to require degrees, and more recently, second degrees and/or 'status' degrees.

I don't know if it's everywhere, but I have seen it in some big corporations and especially in government-related jobs. It also seems to be more prevalent in the US but it's happening here too. I have seen superb engineers have to go out and get degrees in their 40s even to be considered for the next rung, and that's no fun at all at that age, while doing a hard job and with a family.

The problem is, OP, at your age the point I'm talking about is maybe 15-20 years off, which seems like an eternity. What worries me is that initially, that step started to require a degree and work against, then lock out, non-graduates. But then the bar started to rise further and I now see people looking for better degrees, maybe MBAs, because all candidates have work experience and first degrees. So, what will be the criteria in 15 or 20 years? Who knows.

Personally, I don't like the above, don't agree it's a good idea, and have argued against it. I think with several strong, experienced, credible candidates for such jobs it has to be a thorough interview process and assessment of personal characteristics that differentiates between otherwise credible candidates but sadly, especially in more bureaucratic organisations, managers like to cover their asses by hiring people on the basis of paper evidence they can point to to justify their choice rather than letting their oen experience and gut instinct talk. After all, you can't document and file instinct.

Honestly, OP, I don't know what to advise.

Put it this way. If I were hiring entry level, I wouldn't eliminate anyone either for your apprenticeship route of the 'better' degree. The apprenticeship would score extra points but my final decision would be my assessment if each candidate and character is very important too.

If I were hiring at management grade 15 or 20 years in your future, I don't care which route you took for degrees, because it's ancient history but I'm aware, having been on the losing end of that argument in some recruiting decisions, that there's an increasing trend towards fancy degrees. In think it's a cop-out personally, by insecure managers looking to export responsibility for choices and I won't hire that kind if jobsworth manager. But there's a lot of them out there.

That, by the way, is a major reason why I left 'bureaucratic' employment a long time and and set up my own business. I hire the right people (the odd mistake excepted) for my needs, not the ones with best paper qualifications or best-looking CV.

And no, I'm not Alan Sugar. But I get where he's coming from.
 
he wil lhave a degree from the aprenticeshipp too though, and can go on and do a masters after if he likes
 
Take the apprenticeship hands down.

The degree opens up a door for a interview no matter where it is from.

Add to that 5 yrs experience you will be significantly more employable than anyone straight out any uni....

edit.

It will also be harder hence worth more.

But not having to pay for uni, plus getting a basic wage coming in, you would be a fool not to take the apprenticeship tbh. Times are changing every man dog has a degree these days they have been devalued hence why some of the more forward thinking companies are taking it off there requirements in the first place. A clever kid with a degree does not mean he can actually step up and do the job.
 
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oh yeah btw doing an apprenticeship you'll get a **** ton of other qualifications alongside.

usually some management one, environmental ones, efficiency ones, and all the required health and safety ones.
 
he wil lhave a degree from the aprenticeshipp too though, and can go on and do a masters after if he likes
If that follows on from my post, I understand that. My point was that, mixing metaphors, they're raising the bar and dropping the glass ceiling.
 
However, there's a catch. Over about the last 20 years or so, there's been an increasing tendency towards a glass ceiling. Assuming you want to be in IT, sooner or later careers move from "coal face" IT into IT management and that is where the glass ceiling hits. Initially a strong CV was sufficient but as increasing numbers have that, competitive pressures look for other ways to differentiate and I've seen an increasing tendency first to require degrees, and more recently, second degrees and/or 'status' degrees.

I don't know if it's everywhere, but I have seen it in some big corporations and especially in government-related jobs. It also seems to be more prevalent in the US but it's happening here too. I have seen superb engineers have to go out and get degrees in their 40s even to be considered for the next rung, and that's no fun at all at that age, while doing a hard job and with a family.

Out of interest, where have you seen this?

I've not personally seen this. At my current place I don't see anything unusual in the candidate profiles for management-tier roles that would suggest a degree was essential (they of course say the usual "Degree or equivalent experience", but that's utterly generic to every profile ever).

Having said that, management isn't the ultimate destination for every career - the ratio of managers to workers clearly shows that most people won't become a manager in any career regardless of their higher education qualifications (or lack thereof...)

Personally, I have no interest whatsoever in management and have plotted a career path whereby I'll stay technical for as long as I possibly can while still ascending in terms of seniority and remuneration. I'd approximate I'm about 50% of the way through my career's upward trajectory at this point although the upward slope is definitely getting steeper at this level.
 
My career path to where I am now, aged 30:

Junior IT analyst at a small outsourced IT firm, working up to a more senior role - £16-20k [A friend helped get me in the door here]
"IT Manager" of a very small NHS org - £30k
Technical Support (Infrastructure) at an NHS Trust - Band 8a (£low 40ks)
Senior Network Analyst, global S&P 500 company - £mid-40s, travelling all over the world
Senior Network Analyst, Fortune 500 company, well inside the top 100 - £60-£70k

So, just to present a degree alternative, an entirely plausible degree route would be.

1. Graduate at 21, join a financial firm as an Associate/Analyst level IT engineer on a grad scheme for £40-50K + bonus (software dev, app support, networking, whatever).
2. Promoted to AVP around 26 (probably by jumping bank), for £65-75K + bonus
3. Promoted to VP around 31 for £90k+ bonus

EDIT: bonuses around 10-50% depending on type of financial firm
 
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I work at Capgemini on the Degree apprenticeship programme, i.e. a current apprentice (previously a different name, but the Gov back is with more funds now) Feel free to email me if you want some details.

There is no horror story compared to some companies offering similar schemes, CG were investing their own money into it before the government offered.
 
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So, just to present a degree alternative, an entirely plausible degree route would be.

1. Graduate at 21, join a financial firm as an Associate/Analyst level IT engineer on a grad scheme for £40-50K + bonus (software dev, app support, networking, whatever).
2. Promoted to AVP around 26 (probably by jumping bank), for £65-75K + bonus
3. Promoted to VP around 31 for £90k+ bonus

That seems like an even better pathway, albeit more competitive. Could you give me a link to any grad schemes to such firms? Most I can find are soley based in London, where salaries like 50-60k don't mean much...
 
That seems like an even better pathway, albeit more competitive. Could you give me a link to any grad schemes to such firms? Most I can find are soley based in London, where salaries like 50-60k don't mean much...

To take that route it's pretty much exclusively London based.
 
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