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sedm1000 said:
The idea that you can get a good understanding of metabolism from reading a few sport biochemistry books or internet sites is misleading. Much of the science of metabolism is actually grounded in very early work, and hasn`t been much altered. Understanding of whole organisms on a molecular level that can evaluate the complex actions of chemicals in different tissues is still way beyond science.
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Does this not apply equally to steriods as it does to supplements? :confused:
 
why the hell would u want to take amphetamines for?
not only would that keep you from sleeping it would destroy your muscles makes u want to p*** for england good for cutting up i spose if you want and need the energy to keep your intesity up buy some ephedrine hcl with a cup of coffee and your good to go proven research into ephedrine as the safest supplement that has been used for 1000,s of years and why would you want to do steroids unless ure a pro! but modest and very MINUTE dosages works wonders there illegal because they WORK!
infact to be honest a good diet and a course of supplemets and cost you more than a good diet and a course of steroids
its all on personal preferance
 
xpowerzonex said:
i spose if you want and need the energy to keep your intesity up buy some ephedrine hcl with a cup of coffee and your good to go proven research into ephedrine as the safest supplement that has been used for 1000,s of years...
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ephedrine certainly isn't the safest supplement and research proves that to be the case, not the other way around :p
xpowerzonex said:
infact to be honest a good diet and a course of supplemets and cost you more than a good diet and a course of steroids
its all on personal preferance
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How on earth are supplements more expensive than steroids? :confused: Unless you buy Maximuscle stuff of course :D

You forget that steroid users also use boat loads of supplements.
 
How on earth are supplements more expensive than steroids?

im talking on a short term basis lets say u hit a plateau in your training u want to get to such ans such weight no matter what your supplement intake is your not going to do it thats where steroids come in handy to take u to that goal quicker and cheaper no?

ephedrine certainly isn't the safest supplement and research proves that to be the case, not the other way around


all supplements can be toxic to a degree the new stuff such as creatine and stuff hasnt been around for long ephedrine has been around for 1000,s of years has killed less people than asprin or stuff like that i have been using it for 8 years with no ill effects at all
same old story abuse it - you pay the price


probally all off topic bu eh....never mind ;)
 
xpowerzonex said:
all supplements can be toxic to a degree the new stuff such as creatine and stuff hasnt been around for long ephedrine has been around for 1000,s of years has killed less people than asprin or stuff like that i have been using it for 8 years with no ill effects at all
same old story abuse it - you pay the price
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You realise creatine is naturally occuring in red meat? I take your comment about excess but its not as if creatine was formulated in a lab
 
Chong Warrior said:
Is that even a word?

You were doing quite well until you wrote this paragraph. In all honesty I think that's one of the most obsurd few sentences I've ever read!!

That stack I use is a lot by most standards and only in the last 2 weeks have I introduced the ALCAR and guarana. I'm so tired sometimes after a hard day at work I just don't have the energy to go and workout with enough intensity to make it worth my time. The stack gives me more than enough for now, I will and do cycle them. I'm almost out of AAKG and CEE and won't buy anymore for months, that's why I bought the new stuff, it's how my cycling works.

I think it costs me around about £5 A MONTH!!! (That isn't including the only expensive supplement there, the one you recommend, the BCAA's)

You think it's cheaper ( and safer :rolleyes: ) to run a cycle of steroids/ amphetamines/ HGH? :D We're talking about thousands of £££'s here, do you have any idea how much HGH costs? Any idea how dangerous amphetamines can be to the heart? even a very short cycle. Steroids is such a broad term and yes they can be used safely, if you can buy A1 good quality gear but they aren't that cheap, you're still talking about hundred's of £££'s.

Just to put this into perspective. So you'd rather recommend substances that are illegal and are known to be toxic and dangerous and so can only be purchased on the black market? Quality is unknown and can be risky, or you could always fly to Thailand and try and bring back your own gear (that'll be cheap then) but according to you it's safer and cheaper than supplements that can be bought from Holland & Barrett or the Supermarket?
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On the basis that they are "good" drugs, yes. They work when taken at reasonable doses, and have good short term effects. IF it was possible to work out a performance/cost figure for steroids/hGH vs other supplements then steroids/hGH would win hands down (125GBP for 0.5mg hGH releasing factor at Sigma currently, sure there are other cheaper places too).

If you are spending 5GBP a month on the list that you detailed, then you either aren`t working out enough, or have some really cheap stuff. I`d question the quality ;). Add on to that the long-term effect of taking high levels of various supplements is largely unknown.

The issue that I am highlighting is that people with very little than an internet/sport's book guide to supplement taking tend to follow the "more must be better" guide to supplements. Most of the information is poorly substantiated and in some cases quite dubious. Add to that the amount of random junk that bulks up these supplements and you create a situation in which most people are wasting their money, and some slowly poisoning themselves. I`d much rather see somebody do some serious training with serious drugs, rather than take unknown risks for little real benefit with less effective supplements.
 
sedm1000 said:
On the basis that they are "good" drugs, yes. They work when taken at reasonable doses, and have good short term effects. IF it was possible to work out a performance/cost figure for steroids/hGH vs other supplements then steroids/hGH would win hands down (125GBP for 0.5mg hGH releasing factor at Sigma currently, sure there are other cheaper places too).

If you are spending 5GBP a month on the list that you detailed, then you either aren`t working out enough, or have some really cheap stuff. I`d question the quality ;). Add on to that the long-term effect of taking high levels of various supplements is largely unknown.

The issue that I am highlighting is that people with very little than an internet/sport's book guide to supplement taking tend to follow the "more must be better" guide to supplements. Most of the information is poorly substantiated and in some cases quite dubious. Add to that the amount of random junk that bulks up these supplements and you create a situation in which most people are wasting their money, and some slowly poisoning themselves. I`d much rather see somebody do some serious training with serious drugs, rather than take unknown risks for little real benefit with less effective supplements.
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how much is .5mg hgh good for?
 
sedm1000 said:
The issue that I am highlighting is that people with very little than an internet/sport's book guide to supplement taking tend to follow the "more must be better" guide to supplements. Most of the information is poorly substantiated and in some cases quite dubious. Add to that the amount of random junk that bulks up these supplements and you create a situation in which most people are wasting their money, and some slowly poisoning themselves.
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Simply replace supplements for steroids........

sedm1000 said:
The issue that I am highlighting is that people with very little than an internet/sport's book guide to steroids taking tend to follow the "more must be better" guide to steroids. Most of the information is poorly substantiated and in some cases quite dubious. Add to that the amount of random junk that bulks up these steroids and you create a situation in which most people are wasting their money, and some slowly poisoning themselves.
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:rolleyes:
 
smoove said:
Can anyone suggest something to help these? Usually about 20minutes into a weights session I get a total lack of energy and just cant keep up the intensity, even starting a weights tires me out. (Diet is in check).
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I added some green tea to my pre workout CEE and Taurine tonight and despite feeling crap at work I managed to hit a PB on pull ups.

Chongs stack must be pretty powerful! :eek: :D
 
Morba said:
how much is .5mg hgh good for?
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I quoted price for release stimulating factor - not sure what usual levels of this are. I`d ask Marion Jones if you want to know the necessary levels for good training ;).

You`d probably do better to befriend a local dairy farmer. Fresh from the milk cows tends to be a good source of growth hormone these days too.
 
MTA99 said:
Simply replace supplements for steroids........
:rolleyes:
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I`m suggesting doing it properly - i.e. not black market. If you are going to go to the upfront expense of steroids then you`ll likely be doing things properly. Unlike the supplements craze - in which the vast majority of users have very little clue what they are doing (no matter how many sports biochemistry articles they read).
 
Just to restate the position, as I`m not interested in getting involved in steroid dosing comparison.

There is a reason why professional athletes use particular drugs - rather than just supplements. As I`m guessing that very few here are gyming for professional means, I cant see that and extra % or two that may be offered by supplements really makes a difference. Its good that it keeps off the streets, but any supplementation is really paying for a psychological kick for feeling like you are taking your gym work seriously.

Taking steroids or supplements is a risk, but the former has been much better studied, and is taken with more information. If you really feel the need to make some gains, then do it quickly, with drugs that work well at low doses, and in an educated manner - rather than taking a lot of supplements relatively randomly. Treat it like a boob-job ;).

If you`re not working out for real competition, in whatever arena, then you might as well save your money and stick to coffee and whey. And Dutch milk.
 
sedm1000 said:
Just to restate the position, as I`m not interested in getting involved in steroid dosing comparison.

There is a reason why professional athletes use particular drugs - rather than just supplements. As I`m guessing that very few here are gyming for professional means, I cant see that and extra % or two that may be offered by supplements really makes a difference. Its good that it keeps off the streets, but any supplementation is really paying for a psychological kick for feeling like you are taking your gym work seriously.

Taking steroids or supplements is a risk, but the former has been much better studied, and is taken with more information. If you really feel the need to make some gains, then do it quickly, with drugs that work well at low doses, and in an educated manner - rather than taking a lot of supplements relatively randomly. Treat it like a boob-job ;).

If you`re not working out for real competition, in whatever arena, then you might as well save your money and stick to coffee and whey. And Dutch milk.
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i really cannot believe that you are advocating the use of steriods for normal gym users.
your last words mention sticking to whey, this is a supplement, something that you think is worthless.

also steriods is not taken with much more information, you must be very naive to think that the majority of users are clued up, let alone in be in a position to make them really worthwhile.
 
sedm1000 said:
....
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You're just on a windup.

You're comparing Green Tea, Creatine and a few amino acids to human growth hormone... get lost :p
MTA99 said:
I added some green tea to my pre workout CEE and Taurine tonight and despite feeling crap at work I managed to hit a PB on pull ups.

Chongs stack must be pretty powerful! :eek: :D
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It's one of the best stacks I've ever tried, better than the ECA stack ;) I feel stimulated like a gentle buzz but I'm also ready mentally for a real hard slog in the gym even after a hard days work. I was warming up the other day with a smile on my face!! Also I don't feel jittery and over stimulated like I sometimes did using ephedrine.

Good choice on the Green Tea, it must the healthiest possible way to consume caffeine, very good for you and is one of the better supplements for fat burning :)
 
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