Soldato
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is that because its free?
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is that because its free?
I can't give you proof on a public forum I'm afraid.
Partly, the other part being it would be an embarrassment (to the sponsor) to be seen using anything else. As good as saying "we'll take the money but their products are carp".
In reality, a lot of sponsorship is part money part product anyway, and with some, it is product only, so it does not make sense to use a product that will give an inferior performance just because it is free.
My brothers BSB team was sponsored by Pirelli, but their race tyres were so shocking they ditched them and paid for Dunlops. I could explain here why they were bad, but it is irrelevant
Patronise?
I work for ONE company and do a bit more than blending thanks. How about you stop posting about something you appear to know very little about and leave it to experts to get on with it.
I don't become an expert in a subject to then plaster my knowledge on internet forums. For a start most of it is confidential.
My issue is you have made blanket statements that are incorrect, and when challenged you accuse me of being patronising. I know of many problems, I know of many fixes, I know of many OEM hardware issues - I won't share them on here though.
Often money talks in high profile motorsport teams in terms of commercial deals, however the engineers developing the cars may want something else. I have a many example of this.
All OEM testing for service fill specifications is carried out at third party test houses. There are no subsidies, the oil companies even have to buy the engines from the OEMs
I don't see that many cheaper oils with MB229.51 or VW 504 507
Well forgive me for no knowing the full involvement of your work.
Ok, so how about some specifics about stuff I know little about and are incorrect?
I don't wanna know what you cannot disclose, and I care not a jot about it.
the facts I have stated are as follows...
1. Bearings make no metal to metal contact under normal operating conditions (I don't class startup as normal operating conditions which they do make some metal to metal contact).
2. Even though this contact occurs, it is minimal and is quickly removed by a good fully functional lubrication system and that oils that meet the manufacturers specifications will be fine, including Halfords.
3. Mixing oils of the same type and grade ie full synth 10w-40 will not cause any issues as long as that oil still meets the same manufacturers standards.
Lets ignore all the race team stuff and everything else other than the facts that the OP has asked about, as neither of us can prove what we know and have seen.
Simply put, I may have used some wording that you disapproved of as being unclear (ie my use of normal operating conditions to not include startup).
So what is the danger of this guy mixing his oils together, as you are clearly hinting at something that I have no idea about, and may require me to ensure all future cars are topped up with identical brand and make of oil that was used for the service.
So here I am, letting the expert get on with it, tell me the problems?
Fair point, but is that because they wouldn't meet those specs or because they didn't have them tested?
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Lets gamble on it being the latter not the former in order to save a few quid!
Why would it matter what oil you use anyway? It's just an old Skoda engine!
Soldato
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My brothers BSB team was sponsored by Pirelli, but their race tyres were so shocking they ditched them and paid for Dunlops. I could explain here why they were bad, but it is irrelevant
Easy to rationalise that choice with laptime data though!
Soldato
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Well forgive me for no knowing the full involvement of your work.
Ok, so how about some specifics about stuff I know little about and are incorrect?
I don't wanna know what you cannot disclose, and I care not a jot about it.
the facts I have stated are as follows...
1. Bearings make no metal to metal contact under normal operating conditions (I don't class startup as normal operating conditions which they do make some metal to metal contact).
Well it is, there is contact, and lots of people class it as somthing that occurs in the normal operating envelope of an engine.
Which kind of makes your 'fact' 1 nothing more than your opinion.
Soldato
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Even easier when the you keep high siding or having the front tuck under you
Everyones butt dyno is different
Like I said, objective data = rational decision.
Well I would rather say it makes my wording poor in your opinion, but whatever, we are just arguing semantics.
Everyones butt dyno is different
Like I said, objective data = rational decision.
Broken bones have a habit of forcing you into making good decisions
Wouldn't meet as they aren't good enough.
1. Bearing is a very generic term, there are big end bearings, main bearings which generate their own oil pressure to support the load from the pistons via conrods. This relies on the oil being supplied at the right flow rate and having the correct properties under pressure, if not the bearings will pick up (spun bearings), this is further complicated when you start introducing fuel and water into the sump thinning the oil out causing break down under high cylinder BMEP (torques)
Small end bearings are very much a metal on metal lubricant regime (Known as boundary lubrication). Camshafts and camshaft bearings also are under massive pressure where oil films break down.
You seem to have not even thought about :
Detergent performance, keeping engines clean and neutralising acids
Dispersants for controlling soot and sludge
Oxidation performance of the base oils /anti oxidants for controlling
Viscosity growth / oil consumption due to light end volatilty.
Shear stability of viscosity modifiers to avoid viscosity drop.
Pistons and piston rings, at ring reversal points there is metal to metal contact, turbo charger bearings at start up, engines with cooler temperature running where normal ZDDPs dont work. Cylinder liner wear needs to be controlled - need to stay round and polish free to maximise the performance (and emissions) of the engine, as well as avoid high oil consumption for the driver.
This isnt even going into the details of each industry and OEM test. Here you can have oils that just pass a 120 micron wear limit claim the same spec as the oils that get <10 microns. Certainly not the same performance despite the same basic spec.
2 OEMs have specifications for a reason, put a non VW 505 01 oil in an engine with Unit injectors and pretty soon you will have no camshaft left - I have seen it. Put the wrong viscosity in a high tuned engine and the big end bearings spin. Put the wrong oil in another car and the timing chain wears out. Put the wrong oil in another and the yellow metals corrode.
3 Oils of the same type is ok - but my definition of type in the additive technology used, sometimes you can mix oils which causes a large increase in the viscosity at cold. Salcylates or phenate soap in the oil? No consumer can tell this. Whilst there are tests to ensure oils are compatibile it doesnt mean you are getting the best from the oil from mixing them.
One example - High Ash 5W-30 cant be mixed with a mid ash 5W-30, they could carry similar specs (this is being driven out of the market by ACEA) but the high ash oils are not suitable for diesels with DPFs.
Another one - you can have two API SN oils of a 5W-40 with very different specification profiles, one suitable for a BMW, the other not but by assuming its fine to mix 5W-40s you could run into issues on N42 Valvetronic engines.
I cant really comment for the OP as I dont know what oil he bought, what specs or brand.
PS - none of this is cut and paste so please accept apologises for typos
Specifications have minimum limits, you can scrape passes on oils that arent even the oils you sell but support the oils on the shelf. Or you can pass them by a large amount. The real challenge - evident in this thread - is education customers on the differences and building marketing storys they can understand.
Simon, you are talking rubbish. It's all about the age and type of car.
You might need special oil for your fancy brand new Audi but if the same engine is in a Skoda in 10 years time then its just a 10 year old Skoda and Tesco Value Oil is fine for it, its not a race car!
You might need special oil for your fancy brand new Audi but if the same engine is in a Skoda in 10 years time then its just a 10 year old Skoda and Tesco Value Oil is fine for it, its not a race car!