Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

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dowie said:
Manslaughter requires someone to die surely? I was asking about the technique in general not the specific incident, we already know what the officers have been charged with.

As for continuing to choke him, that isn't clear at all - I think they probably should have started CPR sooner but as for the use of the technique, I wasn't there and I don't know how much force was actually applied. It's, again, a technique that they've been trained to use - that city/police department has approved it knowing it has risks. We don't know that the technique itself was the cause here though.

That's getting into conspiracies and is conflating their roles here - Floyd worked as a bouncer inside the club, Chauvin worked shifts as a police officer outside - clubs could pay for a police vehicle to be deployed outside so they'd be available to be called upon - they don't directly employ the police officers, it's via the police force AFAIK - they're just making sure they have an easy response time and a visible deterrent to trouble makers etc...

It's possible they did recognise each other but neither seems to acknowledge that in the video AFAIK - I've not seen any footage or dialogue along those lines.
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Someone died here so the chokehold is the issue. Other people have died from the same chokehold. It is a chokehold they're trained to use, they shouldn't be though because choking people kills people. People have died throughout the US because of unnecessary use of this chokehold.

People relating this case to race and complaining 'no one made a fuss about a white men being choked to death' are racist idiots. Numerous other black men have been choked to death by police for no reason, see Elijah Mcclain and Eric Garner. 2 black men commiting no crime at all, being subdued and choked to death by police officers.

Also you seemingly don't understand what a conspiracy is. My theory about Chauvin having a professional issue with GF is just that. A conspiracy involves multiple people. From what I've read Chauvin was hired directly and not through the police department. So I'm pretty sure you're wrong there.
 
platinum87 said:
Its like you are saying there is no way to prove the power supply on the PC broke without clear signs of an asteroid impact.
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From my understanding the only key diagnosis for conscious asphyxia (without the back being broken) over other causes of death is blood vessel breakage within the eyes. Which GF was diagnosed with.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
[..] People relating this case to race and complaining 'no one made a fuss about a white men being choked to death' are racist idiots. [..]
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Are you saying that both those groups of people are racist idiots or only the ones objecting to the massive racist double standards that say that whether or not a person's death matters is determined solely by what "race" they are?
 
Malevolence said:
Not according to the autopsy report. See post #210
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They believe that autopsy report was faked as part of the conspiracy. Like everything else that doesn't fit their preconceived notion of what happened.

And no, I am not making that up:

ANDREW GREEN said:
[..] I did, it was an autopsy carried out by the police department looking to cover up the case. [..]
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PrincessFrosty said:
The knee to the neck is itself part of the restraint. It's weird circular logic to say he's restrained therefore don't restrain him anymore. It's common for people to stop fighting back once they realize they're pinned and can't get away but it doesn't mean they wont continue to resist if you remove that restraint. He's obviously a bad faith actor in all of this, they gave him countless attempts to behave and come peacefully and when he refused and they resorted to force he physically resisted them which resulted in the escallation of force against him. There's every reason to believe that if they removed the restraint on him before backup arrived that he would continue to fight them. The police act in a way to preserve the safety of themselves and those around them and that is their primary priority when dealing with someone being violent.
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It's not a weird circular logic. You are implying that its black and white between restraining vs not restraining. There are levels of restraint.

He was almost certainly a very annoying and difficult subject to restrain. He needed restraining. Once someone is in hand cuffs and there are 4 of you, you do not need 1 of the 4 to kneel on his neck.

Do you feel someone who has gone unconscious, who is in handcuffs, needs restraining with a knee on the neck?

I would never place a knee on someone's neck to restrain them full stop, never mind after they have gone unconscious, its asking for trouble, the only way to achieve that position is to have someone already restrained and to do it to exert extra pressure. That pressure could easily be done with a knee on the back of their legs.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
There's 2 autopsy reports, one by the racist corrupt police department and an independent one
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Firstly, you do know that the police department don't actually carry out autopsies, right? And secondly, if you're going to continue peddling this conspiracy nonsense how do you know the independent autopsy, paid for by the Floyd family, isn't the dodgy one? Or wouldn't that fit in with your narrative?
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Oh look the racist deflecting that he's racist by claiming someone calling him out is 'racist' with zero evidence. Everyone knows what you are
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Almost every post you've made is utterly racist. None of the posts I've made are.

You are just another lying racist hypocrite projecting their own racism onto their targets. You're nothing unusual. In high medieval Europe people like you were doing the same thing to Jews. Etc, etc.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I've heard it all now, Angilion being called a racist :)
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I've been called racist by other extreme racists like ANDREW GREEN before. Some anti-white racists, some pro-white racists. The only difference between the two is that the pro-white racists could (and sometimes did) call me a traitor as well.

I think they fall into one of three camps, or maybe more than one:

1) Truly devout racists. So devout in their racism that they can't comprehend anything other than racism so assume everyone is as racist as they are.
2) Liars making false accusations as a weapon against people who disagree with them and against the "race" they are targetting.
3) "Progressives" so deluded that they genuinely believe the downright Orwellian blackwhite newspeak propaganda spewed out by that vile ideology of authoritarianism and irrational prejudices. So they genuinely believe that racism is equality and equality is racism (and the same for sexism and every other irrational prejudice favoured by "progressives").
 
"Appears to", "I think", "Probably".

If witnesses keep attaching these to their testimony he is going to be found innocent as there is doubt.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Do you feel bad that you're realised that you're a massive racist lad?
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In often touted as being a liberal lefty loon on here, but I think you are the kind of person they are conflating me with...

Your bizarre level of posting, as correct minded as it may be to some, is not how it’s done. Stop it.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Someone died here so the chokehold is the issue. Other people have died from the same chokehold. It is a chokehold they're trained to use, they shouldn't be though because choking people kills people. People have died throughout the US because of unnecessary use of this chokehold.
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The problem I have with this is that it's too absolute. I don't agree that death in of itself, without context necessarily constitutes a problem. I accept that there are circumstances that criminals put themselves into where the necessary use of force to arrest them also puts them at the risk of death. And in those circumstance I'd rather a criminal die than law enforcement risk their own death or injury, or ending up in a situation where it's impossible to enforce the law.

The problem with deadly force is that by definition it's force that kills someone, but people are resilient to force to wildly different degrees. Floyd was already having trouble breathing and we don't really know for sure what level of restraint could have been safe for him, the arresting police aren't trained medical professionals that cannot asses the precise health of perpetrators. They're trained to use techniques that are seen as generally safe. And so I just don't buy the simple analysis that because someone died there must necessarily be a problem, I think you need to carefully look at the context and the details.

Y'know that tasers are way more deadly in law enforcement than these kind of choke holds, that while people have died in the past from these choke holds, significantly more people have died from complications due to being tasered. And we aren't all up in arms about the use of tasers. If they'd tasered Floyd and he'd died from that I'd be willing to bet that it would not have got the same media attention. It would be a discussion on if tasers are generally safe (they are) and that specific weakness in his health made him very vulnerable and while sad that he died it wasn't necessarily because tasers are generally considered deadly weapons. We of course understand that ANYTHING can be deadly if someone is sufficiently weak enough.

My suspicion is strongly that it was the symbolic image of a white man with his knee on a black mans neck that was the trigger for this. In a country that is heavily primed to spot and exaggerate issues of race and has a long history of race hysteria especially with the myth of the white men keeping black men down and oppressed. The rage about this is mostly emotional it's not born out in statistics or anything like that, otherwise there would be a far bigger reaction to other forms of deadly law enforcement which are objectively worse but that people just accept as generally fine.
 
Angilion said:
You're a very silly person who is deranged and who is committing libel. Which is illegal. If I cared, I'd do something about that. But you're not worth caring about. Besides, you appear to be severely mentally ill so I'd feel a bit uncomfortable bringing legal action against you. I'll cut a lot of slack to people who are mentally ill. Their ravings aren't their fault.

Either that or you're a troll. The result is the same either way.
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Agreed. As much as some posters and I go at it, including you and I, there is a line, and even that line is to be avoided, never mind crossed, and he clearly has done.
 
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