Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

[Minusorange]

Yep pretty damning, odd though considering the documents relating to knee on neck training

 

[inogen]

The National Socialists were socialists, obviously. .

Errr... no they weren't. They weren't socialists and never were. Their ideology was all about promotion and preservation of a social hierarchy which is about as far from socialism as you could possibly get. They absolutely despised socialists or anyone stood up for any kind of non-nazi social ideal and systematically murdered them for gods sake.

So yes, they do fit neatly into those over-over-simplified "left or right" boxes and not in the ****ing left one either.

Obviously...

 

[Minusorange]

Wouldn't be surprised if Jury say guilty after that testimony from the Lt, wonder what witnesses/evidence are left that could possibly sway things the other way

 

[StriderX]

They should put him into the general population if he goes down for this, it's only equitable.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

When your own colleagues are throwing you under the bus its probably safe to say you are screwed. Like it took a fellow policeman to tell us that kneeling on the neck of someone already cuffed for 9 minutes wasn't acceptable. He's going to jail and hopefully other police see this and stick to Protect and Serve, what the public expect from them and that they are not above the law.

 

[VincentHanna]

Devastating testimony from the head of homicide earlier, he testified that kneeling on a neck like that can kill - and he’d never been trained to do that in his career.

Also lots of testimony related to the use of force and proportion.

I think the defence could lose the case on that testimony alone, for a jury to sit and listen to a seasoned head of homicide give that kind of info the way he did.

He also said a knee on the neck is considered "deadly force" and once a person is cuffed you should have them on their side or sitting up.

Wouldn't be surprised if Jury say guilty after that testimony from the Lt, wonder what witnesses/evidence are left that could possibly sway things the other way

But wait, didn't some posters suggest we should only rely on video evidence, not testimony?

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

But wait, didn't some posters suggest we should only rely on video evidence, not testimony?

I read that post a page or two back and laughed at the idiocy of it. This is why witnesses are called.

 

[Blackbadger]

The following document I understand contains extracts from the Minasota Police training handbook.
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ses/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit67807072020.pdf
Pages 12 & 26 appear to be relevant, maybe others also.


Page 12 states

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person's neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck)

Page 26 is titled

Ok they are in handcuffs now what

Then a photo showing what appears to be very similar to the restraint used in this case.

From a uneducated view, the training manual is where maybe where people could take issue.
Maybe the police did follow procedures ? Maybe not, Maybe partially. Maybe up to a point and medical intervention could have been provided sooner ?
The issue is, if the outcome would be any different due to the drug overdose.

 

[Minusorange]

From a uneducated view, the training manual is where maybe where people could take issue.
Maybe the police did follow procedures ? Maybe not, Maybe partially. Maybe up to a point and medical intervention could have been provided sooner ?
The issue is, if the outcome would be any different due to the drug overdose.

That's why I thought it odd that the Lt testimony contradicts these documents, also I wonder why the defence didn't question the Lt about these documents and his conflicting statements, seems strange they're in as evidence but they haven't been used yet, maybe next week though there will be some more curveballs that sway things back as it seems like all the witnesses so far have been for the prosecution and not defence

 

[deuse]

Devastating testimony from the head of homicide earlier, he testified that kneeling on a neck like that can kill - and he’d never been trained to do that in his career.

Also lots of testimony related to the use of force and proportion.

I think the defence could lose the case on that testimony alone, for a jury to sit and listen to a seasoned head of homicide give that kind of info the way he did.

He must have missed the training manual.

Look above.

 

[Deleted User 234324]

Isn't he a homocide detective, and has been for a long time, isn't his entire job dealing with people who are already dead and therefor unlikely to kick up a fuss and require restraint.

 

[dowie]

Devastating testimony from the head of homicide earlier, he testified that kneeling on a neck like that can kill - and he’d never been trained to do that in his career.

Also lots of testimony related to the use of force and proportion.

I think the defence could lose the case on that testimony alone, for a jury to sit and listen to a seasoned head of homicide give that kind of info the way he did.

Presumably more relevant if that came from say a uniform Sgt or Lt regularly making street arrests etc... rather than some detective involved with investigating murders. Or better still an instructor from whatever academy trained Chauvin or whoever is involved in whatever annual training they go through (if applicable).

Generally, it seems to be the uniformed sergeants who are called first when a police officer needs a "superior" on scene etc..

 

[kindai]

That's why I thought it odd that the Lt testimony contradicts these documents, also I wonder why the defence didn't question the Lt about these documents and his conflicting statements, seems strange they're in as evidence but they haven't been used yet, maybe next week though there will be some more curveballs that sway things back as it seems like all the witnesses so far have been for the prosecution and not defence

Tactical timing. Wait for this testimony to fade in impact over a few days, bring up the evidence, then rip the Lt to shreds on his credibility as to why his comments dont match the force training. Reasonable doubt achieved.

 

[Angilion]

Errr... no they weren't. They weren't socialists and never were. Their ideology was all about promotion and preservation of a social hierarchy which is about as far from socialism as you could possibly get. They absolutely despised socialists or anyone stood up for any kind of non-nazi social ideal and systematically murdered them for gods sake.

So yes, they do fit neatly into those over-over-simplified "left or right" boxes and not in the ****ing left one either.

Obviously...

Obviously not, since they didn't promote a social hierarchy, they nationalised most industries, they instituted a welfare state and they favoured very big government. All the opposite of "right wing". They didn't despise socialists. They despised Marxists. Like politics in general, socialism isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

Would you class Stalin as right wing? If not, why not? He was much the same without the nationalism. Similar policies, similar authoritarianism, similar mass murderousness.

Almost nothing fits into the over-over-simplified "left or right" boxed because they have very little connection to reality. You may as well label them "good" and "evil" or "pious" and "heretic".

 

[Felon]

Presumably more relevant if that came from say a uniform Sgt or Lt regularly making street arrests etc... rather than some detective involved with investigating murders. Or better still an instructor from whatever academy trained Chauvin or whoever is involved in whatever annual training they go through (if applicable).

Generally, it seems to be the uniformed sergeants who are called first when a police officer needs a "superior" on scene etc..

Yeah I agree in that sense, the guy looked more like a pen pusher than an actual cop who regularly apprehends people. I just think the impact of his testimony was very strong, in terms of how the jury might consider it.

 

[VincentHanna]

A pen pusher?

You think homicide detectives go there straight out of police academy?

 

[Deleted User 234324]

Yeah I agree in that sense, the guy looked more like a pen pusher than an actual cop who regularly apprehends people. I just think the impact of his testimony was very strong, in terms of how the jury might consider it.

It's also a holiday weekend in the US so by Monday I suspect most of the Jury would have forgotten about some of it.

 

[Deleted User 234324]

A pen pusher?

You think homicide detectives go there straight out of police academy?

Didn't he state he joined the Police in 2004, moved to homicide in 2008, so 4 years on the beat. Question is, is the training he is given the same as that of a street copper, or as I suspect, is the training more relevant to his role with only minor aspects from general policing.

 

[Felon]

A pen pusher?

You think homicide detectives go there straight out of police academy?

To be fair, he stated in his own testimony that for the last 20 years or so, he mostly does follow up work on cases, as he’s a lieutenant...

For what it’s worth I agreed with pretty much everything he said.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Isn't he a homocide detective, and has been for a long time, isn't his entire job dealing with people who are already dead and therefor unlikely to kick up a fuss and require restraint.

Yeah its not like homicide detectives have to apprehend violent offenders, like murderers... oh wait.