Description of Afterlife?

That doesnt mean that Gods and Afterlife are real:

The researchers point out that the project was not setting out to prove the existence of god or otherwise, but sought to find out whether concepts such as gods and an afterlife appear to be entirely taught or basic expressions of human nature.
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I wasnt predisposed to believe in gods and afterlife and was raised in a strongly religious environment. I simply no longer could believe in what I considered to be myths and fairy tales since the age of 12, and this was my own personal choice, not influenced by anyone else. In fact everyone of my friends were also strongly religious, and I still attended religious assembly at school and at the temple over the weekends on top of RE classes.

If anything, people only believe in religion because it is constantly forced and brainwashed into them, and they simply believe everything they are told.

I already mentioned peer approval within the scientific academia several times, its not my problem that you missed that.

I dont believe anything in your second quote either, I strongly doubt that such papers would be automatically censored, and I dont see what is stopping any of these scientists from simply publishing their work themselves today on the internet if that is the case.

Your argument here is simply it doesnt exist because its been censored, but yet I'm too 'belligerent to examine or refference it impartially'.

You originally claimed that there is scientific investigation of the afterlife, yet now you claim there isnt because its censored, what a joke.

ethan said:
Concerning the "leading physicists and biologists" question, well, that would depend on how you asked the question or conducted the survey. The latest survey I came across indicated that 20% of atheists were spiritual and that they found being spiritual was qualitatively more different to being religious.
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And that means that 80% of Atheists dont believe in spirituality. Also 'leading physicists and biologists' =/= atheists, the two surveys you are comparing are targeting entirely different demographics.
 
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Heres a very thorough investigation done on beliefs in god and 'spirits + lifeforce' in Europe recently 2005 (maybe not very recent, but the most recent study I've found on this large a scale):

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf

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While most people still believe in a god, and / or spirit and life force, the numbers that do believe have been declining over the last few decades, or the numbers that dont believe are increasing in most countries which no longer have such a strong Church presence as top 7 or so countries.

This kind of rebutes your idea that '....humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife. At least until it is drummed out of them.'
 
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You originally claimed that there is scientific investigation of the afterlife, yet now you claim there isnt because its censored, what a joke.
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Strawman since I never precluded the possibility of individual scientists within selective groups posting their own work. Joke that you feel a need to put comments in other people's mouths.

wasnt predisposed to believe in gods and afterlife and was raised in a strongly religious environment. I simply no longer could believe in what I considered to be myths and fairy tales since the age of 12, and this was my own personal choice, not influenced by anyone else. In fact everyone of my friends were also strongly religious, and I still attended religious assembly at school and at the temple over the weekends on top of RE classes.
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Fair enough regarding yourself but you cannot necessarily state the same for everybody else.

If anything, people only believe in religion because it is constantly forced and brainwashed into them, and they simply believe everything they are told.
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No they don't but anyway, where is your evidence for this? (rhetorical because it's a generalisation).

I already mentioned peer approval within the scientific academia several times, its not my problem that you missed that.
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Interestingly enough a sum of $5 million has only recently been awarded to fund interdisciplinary research in to immortality etc and will hopefully satisfy your thirst for proof in a peer reviewed journal. :
Half of the $5 million grant will be awarded for research projects. The grant will also fund two conferences, the first of which will be held at the end of the project’s second year and the second at the end of the grant period. A website will include a variety of resources, from glossaries and bibliographies to announcements of research conferences and links to published research. Some recent work in Anglo-American philosophy will be translated for German philosophers who, in the last 30 years, have been increasingly studying the work of American philosophers.

UC Riverside Chancellor Timothy P. White said Fischer’s research “takes a universal concern and subjects it to rigorous examination to sift fact from fiction. His work will provide guidance for discussion of immortality and the human experience for generations to come. We are extremely proud that he is leading the investigation of this critical area of knowledge.”

Noting Fischer’s renown as a scholar of free will and moral responsibility, Stephen Cullenberg, dean of the College of Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences, said, “There is perhaps no one better suited to lead a multidisciplinary research project on the question of immortality and its social implications. The Templeton Foundation’s generous support will enable scholars from across the world to come to UCR to investigate how the question of immortality affects all cultures, albeit in different ways.”

Anecdotal reports of near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences and past lives are plentiful, but it is important to subject these reports to careful analysis, Fischer said. The Immortality Project will solicit research proposals from eminent scientists, philosophers and theologians whose work will be reviewed by respected leaders in their fields and published in academic and popular journals.

“We will be very careful in documenting near-death experiences and other phenomena, trying to figure out if these offer plausible glimpses of an afterlife or are biologically induced illusions,” Fischer said. “Our approach will be uncompromisingly scientifically rigorous. We’re not going to spend money to study alien-abduction reports. We will look at near-death experiences and try to find out what’s going on there — what is promising, what is nonsense, and what is scientifically debunked. We may find something important about our lives and our values, even if not glimpses into an afterlife.”
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“We will be very careful in documenting near-death experiences and other phenomena, trying to figure out if these offer plausible glimpses of an afterlife or are biologically induced illusions,” Fischer said. “Our approach will be uncompromisingly scientifically rigorous. We’re not going to spend money to study alien-abduction reports. We will look at near-death experiences and try to find out what’s going on there — what is promising, what is nonsense, and what is scientifically debunked. We may find something important about our lives and our values, even if not glimpses into an afterlife.”
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This sounds very interesting and I am looking forward to it. Yet can you possibly tell me what current research into the afterlife you were suggesting already exists in this post?

Of course there has in terms of scientific investigation of it. Your just to belligerent to examine or refference it impartially.
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No they don't but anyway, where is your evidence for this? (rhetorical because it's a generalisation).
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Any country where over 80% of the people believe in God due to a strong presence of organized religion as clearly demostrated in the above graph. On the other hand, countries with a much weaker church presence are gradually declining in the overall populations beliefs in God, though belief in spirits or life forces remain high. However I have no doubt that in another 50-100 years from now, this number will also start declining, and the number of non believers will increase a lot higher, such as in France where 33% of the people surveyed did not believe in a god, spirit or life force.

I believe with a strong probability that the percentage of people who do not believe in god, spirits or life forces will increase to above 50% in some European countries within the next 50 years. This prediction could be easily calculated with a demographic projection graph by extending out the increase in non believers over the last few decades over a larger timescale into the future.
 
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However I have no doubt that in another 50-100 years from now, this number will also start declining, and the number of non believers will increase a lot higher, such as in France where 33% of the people surveyed did not believe in a god, spirit or life force.

I believe with a strong probability that the percentage of people who do not believe in god, spirits or life forces will increase to above 50% in some European countries within the next 50 years. This prediction could be easily calculated with a demographic projection graph by extending out the increase in non believers over the last few decases over a larger timescale into the future.
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This will be interesting to see as it is testable.
 
RDM said:
Other than the other religions that have many followers that also memorise their scriptures.
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Is this an assumption or a fact? Is it the case that the text has been memorised uninterrupted since its revelation? Taking Christianity as an example why then do the Protestants and Catholics differ in the text?

Or in fact the millions of Star Wars fans that can recite word for word the entire film. :D
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Okay, take your word for it. Any YT clips of these experts?

If the Koran is such a linguistic masterpiece why does it get more complex linguistically as time passes? Earlier verses are simpler than later verses. Which of course you would expect if it was written by man, but seems a bit odd if it was the direct word of God as dictated to Mohammed by Gabriel.
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Are you (even) familiar with Arabic and order of revelation of the Surahs in the Quran? Or the shorter Suras and lengthier ones? The various themes touched upon, afterlife, creation, social conduct, laws, narratives of previous prophets and nations, etc.? Perhaps reading the translation of the Quran; I think you've assumed/concluded above and mixed up between chronological revelation of Suras and the actual order of Suras in the Quran?

See link: Revelation Order of the Qur'an

Also good read is this thread taking a selection of verses and demonstrating the depth of meaning conveyed in them.

If you wish to query anything please refer to below links. I'm sure others well versed in Arabic will be able to assist and clear any doubts.

Word Reference - Arabic Section
SunniForum - Arabic Section


Hereunder is a sample of the shorter Suras. Chronologically their revelation is 7, 27, 80 and 86. However in order of compilation of the Quran they all appear in the last part (Juz); numbered 30 (of 30). I've selected these as they're from the same recitor.

The last clip is to a lengthier Sura; theme is different and by another recitor. (I couldn't find clip by same recitor unfortunately) However the consistency in the message remains.

Sura: Al-Takwir
Order (Revelation): 7
Order (Quran): 81


Sura: Al-Burooj
Order (Revelation): 27
Order (Quran): 85



Sura: Naba'
Order (Revelation): 80
Order (Quran): 78



Sura: Al-Mutaffifin
Order (Revelation): 86
Order (Quran): 83



Sura: Al-Anàm
Order (Revelation): 55
Order (Quran): 6

 
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This thread is hilarious. A description of the afterlife is the same as a description of before life. It doesn't exist. Why must there be an after? Do you really think we're that special? The human condition in full flow right here.
 
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