Developer says game key resale fraud cost it $450,000

This is their follow up blog with all the statistics.

http://tinybuild.com/g2a-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys

The total value of these transactions on G2A was ~$200k
Meanwhile, if these transactions happened at Retail price, it’s closer to $450k.
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G2A isn't the problem because stolen credit cards were being used to buy their keys, if G2A didn't exist, they'd be sold through a different third party seller.
i.e. instead of eBay, they'd use Amazon instead etc.

Them firing away at G2A will achieve nothing and is a little childish if you ask me?
 
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~>Dg<~ said:
exactly so many just swallow this bs.

if they didnt have measures in place to protect themselves.that is their fault and as with any " imaginary " figures you take it with a pinch of salt.
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What do you suggest they do - they sell a key - later on the payment method gets reversed the key has already been sold on by the person acting fraudulently and by then blocking it they largely just affect an innocent person - the backlash just generally isn't worth it - the problem really stems from the middle men sites like G2A not putting enough measures in place to deal with the issue - the other option is for the developer/publisher to play hardball with 3rd parties sales and/or getting sites like G2A shutdown which isn't in anyone's best interest either.
 
MrMarvelous said:
$450,000? Keep dreaming crappy Indie developers.
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Why so dismissive?

Punch club alone is at about 190,000 activated copies on Steam. If a quarter of those were bought from dodgy sellers on G2A, that's the full $450k gone.

And tinybuild publish about a dozen other games.
 
if you read the whole article on tinybuilds site you will see not everything is so black and white also the figure they quote is full retail value. which wouldnt be the true value any way as they give away keys and in bundle like the humble bundle.

its like a insurance valuation there is the top price which no one would ever pay for that item and there is the real price.which it actually sells for.

also in the article the head ceo says make your own mind up.so hes trying to say look we think its this but we cant prove it or say it is this way 100 percent . probably cause hed get sued.

http://tinybuild.com/g2a-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys
 
Rroff said:
What do you suggest they do - they sell a key - later on the payment method gets reversed the key has already been sold on by the person acting fraudulently and by then blocking it they largely just affect an innocent person - the backlash just generally isn't worth it - the problem really stems from the middle men sites like G2A not putting enough measures in place to deal with the issue - the other option is for the developer/publisher to play hardball with 3rd parties sales and/or getting sites like G2A shutdown which isn't in anyone's best interest either.
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i suggest they sort the issue with how they deal with payments.its their own system that has caused it.

the very point that they asked for compensation G2a said no and they havent got a leg to stand on says it all. they slipped up. while harsh its their own problem.
 
They can protect themselves from bearing the cost of fraudulent transactions by using Verified by Visa and Mastercard SecureCode type checks when taking payments, so this must be something they aren't doing?
 
well they definitely trying to get something out of this mess and its already working. people feel sorry for them maybe purchase games and so on.
 
cheesyboy said:
The fraud would be covered by whom?

The credit card owners get their cash back, but how do the devs get paid for the keys which have gone out?
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The devs just need to be able to invalidate the stolen keys and the product the thieves are "selling" on G2A becomes worthless.
 
Yes, it's very tough.

I used to work at a company that sold digitally distributed games and a lot of them were via Steam key. The majority of our time was spent combating fraudulent purchases and frankly it was a mess (think stolen PayPal accounts, fraudulent card usage etc.).

Steam were awful and never gave any assistance - we often had to get publishers to lean on them on our behalf and even then it was very rare we could get keys cancelled. Eventually we took to manually registering fraudulently-purchased keys on throwaway accounts just so the people committing the crime would have nothing to sell.
 
only way to stop people buying from key sites is to sell a game around the world at the same price , as people always will go for the a cheaper option .
 
psychas said:
only way to stop people buying from key sites is to sell a game around the world at the same price , as people always will go for the a cheaper option .
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Indie devs already do that - the keys get bought fraudulently: these aren't the grey-market keys you're thinking of, they're actually stolen.
 
~>Dg<~ said:
think about this logically.

they are game keys.

G2a is just selling a product.

are they committing the fraud ? if answer is no then whats the issue ? they are just selling what someone else would ? a key for a game. the only difference is
its been sold before.

all this 450,000 is bs.the fraud would be covered .
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Not sure how it is in the UK, but selling stolen property is illegal in the US, even if you weren't aware it was stolen.

It's these reseller's responsibility to know where the product they get is coming from.
 
Seanspeed said:
Not sure how it is in the UK, but selling stolen property is illegal in the US, even if you weren't aware it was stolen.

It's these reseller's responsibility to know where the product they get is coming from.
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Yeah well that's one of the most stupid laws in the States, its like the law where you can be charged for murder if someone else in your party murders someone.

There is cases where people have been prosecuted for it even when they didn't know it was going to occur.

Another is a law that allows law enforcement to impound assets and currency from you if they deem fit and you have little no recourse in getting it back unless you take them to court and fight for it back costing you thousands in the process.

Most local enforcement agencies are allowed to keep the proceedings as well, anyone like me thinks this might be motivation?
 
Honestly, blacklist those keys and its the end of the story.

No one force players to buy cheap keys from unauthorised sellers, if they do then take the risk.
 
Ultimately, sites that resell keys are really no different from eBay. They can't possibly vet every single seller to ensure that none of the goods they're selling are stolen. Even if they had the resources for that, it's impossible to do. I understand why developers and publishers don't like sites like G2A in general, but in this specific scenario they can't be held accountable for it. I'm sure they'd ban any seller comitting this kind of fraud if they had proof of them doing so, as it's not in their interests to allow keys that could be revoked to be sold on their site, given they're the ones who will likely end up footing the bill (especially with their G2A Shield program).

Seanspeed said:
It's these reseller's responsibility to know where the product they get is coming from.
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I'm fairly sure sites like G2A are legally covered by the fact that it's not them selling the keys, it's users on their site. Any legal ramifications would fall on the invidivual reseller, rather than the people hosting a platform. Just like you're not going to see eBay sued for people selling stolen goods on there. As long as they remove any listings and ban any sellers known to be/known to have been selling stolen keys, I'm sure they're in a good position legally-speaking.
 
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I've been using a key reselling website for all of my game purchases since 2011 and now only buy directly through Steam if there is a sale.

Games have gotten far too expensive and I refuse to pay over £30 for a game these days.

Never liked the look of G2A though. Always looked a bit dodgy to me. Paying them a bit extra to make sure the key you just bought will definitely work? No thanks.
 
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