Dinosaurs are not real :(

[jmc007]

The Behemoth's tail moves like a cedar or is a stiff as the cedar, or is strong as the cedar depending on the translation, it is not the size of a cedar.....

There is difficulty ascribing real-world examples to the Behemoth and other sources such as the Vulgate refers to Testiculorum with the obvious connotations that provides.

Prior to the 17th Century is was generally regarded (and to a large extent that is true today) to be a creation of the authors imagination as a symbol of Gods power.

At least you didn't try and tell me it is refering to a Bulls penis. Or did you?
If it was purely the authors imagination, why did he go into such detail of the habitat of the creature?

Actualy it is not. However as you are entrenched in your illinformed position, to you, I suppose it would appear that way.

Actually it is the same (With the gift of faith.) and you may very well find it is you in the illinformed postion.

Now, if what Christians and the Bible state is true, that Mary was the virgin mother of Jesus, God was his father, and that Jesus was a man, then according to this, and along with the part that says 'God created us in his Image', God was / is a biologically human male that impregnated Mary.

How did such an organism gain magical universe and live creating powers? And how and where did / does it exist?

First off God is Spirit, not some biological man; although Jesus was.
Mathew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Your ideas are typically hinduistic tbh.

 

[Angilion]

Typical Christian.

Rubbish. A typical Christian believes that their god did everything, but will accepts evidence regarding when it happened and evidence regarding how various aspects of the universe work. Or, maybe more accurately, a typical Christian doesn't think about it.

Denial of evidence isn't required.

i) The universe is much older than the partial, incomplete genealogy of a few people written in the Christian bible.

That doesn't break Christianity, so it's not a problem. A partial, incomplete genealogy of a few people isn't intended to be a complete history of the universe.

ii) Evolution exists. It is observed, repeatedly. It dramatically affects humanity, over and over again. Humans have been using it as a tool for millenia.

Answer 1) God in his wisdom created life with the ability to adapt to changing conditions, because he knew it would be beneficial.

Answer 2) God is making all the many changes, micromanaging everything.

iii) The solar system can't have been created in 6 days, including some days before there was a sun to make days. That doesn't make any sense.

It's not 24-hour days. It's any amount of time. Other parts of the bible refer to time moving differently for God, anyway. Also, the story of the creation had to be written to make sense to people at the time, so it can't be a literal and complete account.

Etc. There are reasonable Christian interpretations to all of it, ones that are consistent with both Christianity and reality. It's only a few who demand that their favoured interpretation of their favoured parts of their favoured translation is treated as absolute literal truth.

 

[Castiel]

At least you didn't try and tell me it is refering to a Bulls penis. Or did you?
If it was purely the authors imagination, why did he go into such detail of the habitat of the creature?

As I stated, to many christians (and theologians) it is considered a device by the author of Job to infer the power of God. It can be considered as one of the many examples of Christian Symbolism.

Actually it is the same (With the gift of faith.) and you may very well find it is you in the illinformed postion.

In fact it is not. Biblical Inerrancy is subjective to the definition of the particular denomination that defines it.

The Books of the Bible are not considered, and have never been considered the literal dictated Word of God, Judaism certaintly doesn't consider the Hebrew Bible to be so either......it is not considered to be so in the same way as the Quran.

Christian mainstream belief is that The Bible is inerrent in it's primary objective to reveal Gods Will and Gods Purpose, not that the words themselves are that of God. For example it is clear that Moses is considered to be the author of the Pentateuch and not God himself.....thus while the message within the inspired scripture can be considered inherrent, the words themselves can not.

I understand that Conservative Christian Literalists are of a different opinion, specifically millenialists such as Jehovah Witnesses' and some ultra conservative Baptist denominations who belive that the Bible in inerrent in every way, including how it refers to Sciences such as biology, Chronology of Historical reference and so on.....however that is not the consideration of the mainstream Christian denominations who believe as I stated earlier that Biblical inerrancy refers to the message within the Books of the Bible and not the specific words themselves.

Augustine wrote against considering Genesis to be the Literal word, rather it being the metaphorical word.....

It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.

Origen wrote:

For who that has understanding will suppose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, existed without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally

John Paul II wrote:

Cosmogony and cosmology have always aroused great interest among peoples and religions. The Bible itself speaks to us of the origin of the universe and its make-up, not in order to provide us with a scientific treatise, but in order to state the correct relationships of man with God and with the universe. Sacred Scripture wishes simply to declare that the world was created by God, and in order to teach this truth it expresses itself in the terms of the cosmology in use at the time of the writer. The Sacred Book likewise wishes to tell men that the world was not created as the seat of the gods, as was taught by other cosmogonies and cosmologies, but was rather created for the service of man and the glory of God. Any other teaching about the origin and make-up of the universe is alien to the intentions of the Bible, which does not wish to teach how heaven was made but how one goes to heaven.

Open Letter from interdenominational Christian clergy in 2004:

We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as 'one theory among others' is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator.

That is the difference.

 

[Castiel]

There are reasonable Christian interpretations to all of it, ones that are consistent with both Christianity and reality. It's only a few who demand that their favoured interpretation of their favoured parts of their favoured translation is treated as absolute literal truth.

Well said.

 

[Banzai_Joe]

Oddly enough i was having this conversation with someone at work earlier.
I was saying it's hard to have a tanigble argument with a deeply religious person cos every time you corner them with "if your god is so rock on and passionate and stuff why does he let people die in such horrific ways?"
Religious eejit: "Oh, it's god's will, ours is not to reason why!"

I'd never deny or beat down someone having faith, as faith doesn't have to mean religion, but beliefs as outlandish as what those who adhere to the bible stick to....are just, imho mind-bogglingly stupid.
How can so many of the [intelligent?] human race beleive in something they simply cannot and never will be able to prove exists?

 

[Castiel]

Oddly enough i was having this conversation with someone at work earlier.
I was saying it's hard to have a tanigble argument with a deeply religious person cos every time you corner them with "if your god is so rock on and passionate and stuff why does he let people die in such horrific ways?"
Religious eejit: "Oh, it's god's will, ours is not to reason why!"

I'd never deny or beat down someone having faith, as faith doesn't have to mean religion, but beliefs as outlandish as what those who adhere to the bible stick to....are just, imho mind-bogglingly stupid.
How can so many of the [intelligent?] human race beleive in something they simply cannot and never will be able to prove exists?

He could have simply answered:

God judged it better to bring good out of evil than to suffer no evil to exist.

Augustine of Hippo.

 

[Banzai_Joe]

He could have simply answered:

God judged it better to bring good out of evil than to suffer no evil to exist.

Augustine of Hippo.

Lol, i'd have then said "Huh?" You high or sommat?"

Another stock answer is "We will keep dying like that until we stop sinning and embrace the lord" and all that gubber that they prattle on about.

 

[ubersonic]

Oddly enough i was having this conversation with someone at work earlier.
I was saying it's hard to have a tanigble argument with a deeply religious person cos every time you corner them with "if your god is so rock on and passionate and stuff why does he let people die in such horrific ways?"
Religious eejit: "Oh, it's god's will, ours is not to reason why!"

I'd never deny or beat down someone having faith, as faith doesn't have to mean religion, but beliefs as outlandish as what those who adhere to the bible stick to....are just, imho mind-bogglingly stupid.
How can so many of the [intelligent?] human race beleive in something they simply cannot and never will be able to prove exists?

When people talk about god and the devil you usually hear clichés like "good vs evil" the problem though is that while the devil is obviously evil god isn't good, he's neutral.

Lets face it if a good person looked down on the world they had created and saw murderers, paedophiles, rapists, famine, war, death, destruction, bieber, etc they would probably lift a finger, hell a 13 year old playing the sims knows when its time to actively try and steer events away from disaster. It wouldn't have taken much effort to give Hitler parkinsons or for one of the 9/11 planes to develop avionics failure.

I don't get why people choose to worship somebody that could help but doesn't, if god exists hes the exact opposite of the "good Samaritan" example. And I hate that nonsense about free choice, starvin Marvin didn't choose to be Ethiopian.

 

[mrk]

Oddly enough i was having this conversation with someone at work earlier.
I was saying it's hard to have a tanigble argument with a deeply religious person cos every time you corner them with "if your god is so rock on and passionate and stuff why does he let people die in such horrific ways?"
Religious eejit: "Oh, it's god's will, ours is not to reason why!"

I'd never deny or beat down someone having faith, as faith doesn't have to mean religion, but beliefs as outlandish as what those who adhere to the bible stick to....are just, imho mind-bogglingly stupid.
How can so many of the [intelligent?] human race beleive in something they simply cannot and never will be able to prove exists?

The majority of it is Psychology really. Thoughts based on the positive faith toward a resolution lead to that person feeling like they’re a part of that positive outcome.

If a man believes he is ill then he will more than likely feel ill, his mind will unknowingly construct the feeling of illness until he has taken medication which suddenly makes him feel better.

That’s not in all cases of course but many cases. Studies have been done with placebo medication where ill people are given fake meds but not told they’re fake and those people end up feeling better because their brains are telling their bodies that they have just taken meds so the chemical reactions going on inside their bodies work their magic and they do indeed feel normal again.

The same applies to strict religious faith. If someone prays for a good outcome for their someone’s good exam results and that person gets good exam results then was it the work of a God answering those prayers or was it that the person taking the exam actually sat down and concentrated on what’s coming up in the paper?

It’s a paradox in some ways but these kinds of things also fall into the Occam's razor principle where the simplest answer is usually the most accurate one.

 

[Abz]

This is what is believed in Islam, It is known in Islam that each day for God is 1000 years on earth… Hence the earth was created in 7000 earth years.
In Islam it is known that God has many creations but the ones we know are Angels (made out of light), Jins (made from Fire) and Humans (made out of carbon(clay)).
We don’t know when God created earth exactly and its not important.

But we know earth was not only created for Humans as from evidence of science we can see that Dinosaurs used to live here millions of years ago.

Coming back to God creation I believe dinosaurs are Jins and lived among us until their time came as it will be our time sometime in the future to co-exist.

Lucifer was a Jin and he was raised by God for his dedication and worship until he disobeyed God when God said kneel to my creation (Adam) and he refused so he was banished. The point of this line is that Jins still exist and live among us but don’t mix with us.

Some religious scholars say that most inhabitants of the sea are Jins, the live in forests, wilderness etc etc we do not have to see them. Like us some worship God and some don’t. In Islam it is advised not to mess with Jins as they are more powerful than us and can hurt us if we push. Although they fear us, some Jins don’t and only hurt humans if we call for it to happen.

God left fossils as well as ruins of past civilisations for us (humans of today) to study and learn from. Examples can be Dino bones for structure and age, Baghdad battery, laws and ethics from Babylonians/Greeks/Romans, Stories of prophets etc etc…

A lot of modern Science has proved some religious tests and using science and religion we have learnt much about earth past, present and future.

Both are needed to progress and learn from…

Hope I didn’t bore you

 

[kedge]

lolreligion

What a Joke it is and I cant wait for the day its all been proven wrong and that day is coming sooner rather than later with Technology

Todays technolgy is different than the pasts, it helps to reveal the truth about what was once believed to be the truth so it works both ways.

sometime in the future i've decided to read the bible or one of its derivatives so I can pick it apart.

Unless an individual is well versed in ancient languages like hebrew, aramaic or greek then anyone who wants to read the Bible has to rely on a translation, actually if you think about it most of us are reliant on the person or persons or translation commitee and there honest judgement. Not an easy task i should imagine, bare in mind that no two languages are the same in sentence structure and grammar etc, it has even been said by scholars/linguists that people who speak different languages think differently. A word for word translation is not allways the best.

And I've wasted enough time on your deliberate lack of knowledge.

That's your prerogative, but i see lack of "evolutionary" evidence.

"if your god is so rock on and passionate and stuff why does he let people die in such horrific ways?"
Religious eejit:

Well, you have started on the premise that God cause the suffering, eejit:.

I don't get why people choose to worship somebody that could help but doesn't.

Why help those who don't want to help themselves, many don't want to. One has to dig deep and discern to understand why the permittance of suffering.

The majority of it is Psychology really.

I agree, but it depends i suppose, praying and asking for riches in materialism is probably not the right way to go about it but asking for humility and endurance to overcome a difficult situation may prove essential to helping an individual be a sound reciever, as where a lot of mans ways be it through the spoken word or read does not help.

 

[Nitefly]

That's your prerogative, but i see lack of "evolutionary" evidence.

Kedge, your inability to see evolutionary evidence is akin to not being able to see the character Cuban Pete in this video:

 

[kedge]

evolutionary evidence is akin to not being able to see.

And what mask are you wearing today Nitefly? ...mataphorically speaking of course

By the way was it you that was proven wrong with regards to the eye of the nautilus?.

 

[Nitefly]

And what mask are you wearing today Nitefly? ...mataphorically speaking of course

By the way was it you that was proven wrong with regards to the eye of the nautilus?.

As far as I remember, somebody said there was no such thing as an incomplete eye. I presented the nautilus and I don't think anyone said otherwise...!

 

[Scougar]

Typical Christian.

Typical troll? I'm a Christian, and I don't know a single Christian that belives that the earth is only a few thousand years old. My nephews play with toy Dinosaurs, and write factually for school projects on them.

How did such an organism gain magical universe and live creating powers? And how and where did / does it exist?

Isn't that the whole point? It's based on faith, not science.

Take atoms... just because we couldn't see (prove) them until relatively recently, doesn't make a person crazy because they go looking for them.

All the slagging off that people are doing in here, in an attempt to try and prove they are obviously much more intelligent than someone else who has faith, is pathetic.

If some guy has been largely influenced throughout their life and by people he respects telling him certain things, and possibly even educated with Christian doctorine, it really is no surprise that person holds a certain view.

Lastly.. the big bang is 'just' a theory based on evidence and assumptions of the time. For all we know.... it might not have been a bang at all... but we could be what is behind some other blackhole and that material/matter that was sent through.. we just don't know.. so it still stands a theory. We don't go round calling people looking for evidence of another way stupid.. we call them scientists/researchers etc.

Try getting off your high horse sometime fella's.

 

[mrk]

Sad to see some people STILL don't know what scientific theory is.

 

[Jay794]

Religous nuts are exactly that, nuts. Anybody who believes that the earth is only 6000 years old is obviously about to drink the kool-aid.

 

[Scougar]

Hopefully you are not referring to me mrk? I'd love to see a universal sized repeatable test of the big bang

 

[Banzai_Joe]

I think there'll come a time when science disproves most if not all religious theories. Wonder what will happen then?
Another war maybe, seeing as that's what religions seem to be good for.....starting wars in the name of.....[insert fake god's name here]

 

[valkia]

the part that said God buried them as a test of faith made me uber lol