Disenfranchisement and I.D. Cards

antijoke said:
I’m talking about people who claim this removes however million from the ability to vote. Those people assume they would vote anyway.
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Is there an assumption that because they don't have photo ID currently that they wouldn't vote?
 
amigafan2003 said:
Is there an assumption that because they don't have photo ID currently that they wouldn't vote?
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There's an assumption they would vote. The evidence says not everyone votes (see any turnout stats ever).

amigafan2003 said:
Because of the multiple reports (some of which have already been posted in this thread) saying so?
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and how do they know? hint: they don't. it's impossible.
 
billysielu said:
Edit: lol @ Angela Rayner "There were 6 cases of voter fraud at the last election.".
How the f could she know how many total cases of voter fraud there were. She can't.
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There was plenty of fraud after the election, can we do something about that as well?
 
billysielu said:
There's an assumption they would vote. The evidence says not everyone votes (see any turnout stats ever).
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But what's that got to do with whether they currently have ID or not?

Whether someone would or wouldn't vote is irrelevant, it's about making sure that everyone has the opportunity to vote if they wish to do so. That's the very definition of voting disenfranchisement.
 
chroniclard said:
Because of all the investigations into it and the associated data?
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Produce said data that proves 99.9999whatever percent of votes were legit, and thus the remainder were fraud.


amigafan2003 said:
But what's that got to do with whether they currently have ID or not?
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Because people complain about requiring ID because it would mean all the people without ID can't vote. They do it because they want to claim a bigger number. But the reality is some of them wouldn't have voted so don't care, and some of them will just go and get ID, and only the remainder are the ones affected.
 
The onus is on whoever backs this idea(assuming fraud is one of the reasons) to prove there is significant fraud and it will combat this. They cant, because there is no significant fraud.

"Matt Hancock admits only 6 voter fraud cases at last election, as protests grow over ‘photo ID’ crackdown"


Some other quote

"Key findings from cases of alleged electoral fraud in 2017
Headline figures from data on cases of alleged electoral fraud in 2017 are:

As of 31 January 2018, there has been one conviction which was in connection with an allegation of personation in polling stations."

Some data
2019 electoral fraud data | Electoral Commission

There are other years there as well.
 
Compulsory National ID Cards. Its absolutely no big deal at all. You would have to be moronic to the n'th degree to still be "big brother" in 2021.
 
Jean-F said:
i caught a snatch of panel conversation on a TV show yesterday, the subject of Bojo’s alleged desire to introduce I.D. cards for voters was being discussed.
Someone said that if it went through, 2 million voters could be disenfranchised, as they had no photo I.D.
Now I can’t see how one can go through life these days without access to photo I.D., but I recognise that it’s the individual’s prerogative to have one or not, but the next statement blew my mind.
A guy on the panel said that 47% of black people old enough to drive do not possess a driving licence, as opposed to 26% of white people.
I can’t put my finger on why I find that remarkable, but I do.
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If you don't drive and you don't have a current passport you've usually got no photo ID that is acceptable.

You can't get a driving licence if you have certain conditions (even provisional), and a passport is relatively expensive if you have no plans to go abroad (and more than a weeks worth of jobseekers allowance), driving lessons are expensive as is car ownership if you're not reasonably well off or need it for work.

My mum ran into problems with photo ID at one point, as she'd never passed a driving test, (she had all the situational awareness of a rock, even using her mobility scooter she never caught onto some of the basics that make life easier for it, and are required for cars), she never went abroad so she didn't have a passport. IIRC she had an issue at the bank at one point that was only resolved because she'd known one of the tellers for years via a charity they volunteered at, and another time after much discussion the branch manager decided her "blue badge" could count as photo ID as it was issued by the local council.

My brother in law currently has no official photo id because he's never learned to drive (never had to, and never had the time to*, my dad no longer has any photo ID because he gave up his driving licence about 15 years ago, and he's not been out of the country in decades due to health issue.

*He was working full time by the age of 17, and much of the time that has been shift work alternating between days and nights.
 
chroniclard said:
The onus is on whoever backs this idea(assuming fraud is one of the reasons) to prove there is significant fraud and it will combat this. They cant, because there is no significant fraud.
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The point is there's no way to catch the fraud, so it's impossible to prove the current levels of fraud. It may not be high, we don't know, but it's not as low as people claim either.
 
antijoke said:
why are you being so dense? Surely it’s obvious what I’m saying.
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My Ph.D mentor always says that if you are explaining something and the other party doesn't understand, it's not their fault, it's yours for not explaining it properly.
 
Feek said:
I've never taken a polling card to the polling station with me and I've never been asked for ID.
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Aye people seem to forget the checks on voter ID in the UK are largely done on registration, and the check at the polling station is the name (with the card just making it faster), and it's quite easily for the polling station staff to spot when someone tried to use a name that has already been used.
 
billysielu said:
The point is there's no way to catch the fraud, so it's impossible to prove the current levels of fraud. It may not be high, we don't know, but it's not as low as people claim either.
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Which types of voter fraud are undetectable?
 
billysielu said:
The point is there's no way to catch the fraud, so it's impossible to prove the current levels of fraud. It may not be high, we don't know, but it's not as low as people claim either.
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That's not how it works.

If it was a problem it would have been spotted as they've spent years trying to find cases, by your reckoning we might as well lock you up for murder because we can't prove that you haven't killed a few people and turned them into a stew.
 
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