Disgusting Mail article, need to rant...
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Soldato
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Well it gives something else for the Daily Mail to waste words on, it's better than another story about immigrants.
Good job from our forces. For all we know their actions have prevented further British deaths.
Taliban lives = worthless.
Edit: Sounds like the book could be worth a look.
Good job from our forces. For all we know their actions have prevented further British deaths.
Taliban lives = worthless.
Edit: Sounds like the book could be worth a look.
Is it better to sacrifice 1 person to save 10, or should we simply allow aggressors or those who support aggressors to do as they please and trust in some karmic nonsense to balance the books instead?
You need to get out and see the real world mate. You are obviously spending too much time hammering away at your keyboard!!
You think we're going to win them over with hugs?!
Soldato
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Perhaps get the hell out of their countries? The west has been occupying the Middle East since the early 1900s. It's this odd idea that we're entitled to be there and that we're helping the barbarians. But imagine the roll reversal - what if Syria, Iran or Iraq, Jordan or Egypt had a military presence here - had army vehicles roaming around the middle of our cities and were busy trying to dictate how we should exist and behave? Would your response not be to push back? There is this odd idea that since the late 1800s to early 1900s it was our mission to make the Middle East see the errors of their ways.
It's no surprise what has been happening lately - don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying some dude rolling into the middle of Spain or London and blowing themselves and a bunch of innocents up in the process or for that matter flying a plane into some big buildings in Manhattan. But there's more to the picture than most people understand or are willing to accept.
why ?
Its just another book in a long line of books that glorify the act of killing in war. Bravo Two Zero anybody ?
Seriously, go have a look in the military section of WH Smith and there are tons of books all recounting stories like this from our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, whats the big deal ?
We armed/supported them so they could overthrow the USSR's control of Afghanistan and how did they repay us? with violence and evil as we didn't share their religion. If somebody has dedicated their life to killing me, my friends, my family and my entire way of life then yes I fully admit to taking pleasure in their demise.
Ill bite, yes they were, not just because the Japanese were the bad guys but because not only did those nukes save many American lives and end the war but they actually saved more Japanese lives than they cost.
[FnG]magnolia;18672077 said:
The "media spin" in this case though is just recounting whats in the book.
Its a book review, not a glorification of war
At least 60 % of the content of that article is just quotes from the book, if not more.
Soldato
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You make the assumption that I haven't seen much of the world? Have you ever been to the Middle East? Africa? India? China? Vietnam? Cambodia? Indonesia? my list goes on - how is yours looking?
Sure as hell is a better idea than shooting some dudes father or brother or best friend.
I suggest you go away and read up on the subject, estimated figures for the invasion of mainland japan were more than the casualties caused by both of the bombs combined, on both sides. They were not going to give in, The battles on Okinawa are a good example of this, the Japanese government were busy creating improvised explosive devices for use by civilians, they were going to drag civilians into the war because of the nature of the Japanese people. Dropping the bombs shortened the end of the war in the pacific and saved many more lives, from both sides, saying otherwise is preposterous.
So, any terrorists need to be left alone then? Nice thinking
Maybe it would have been a good idea to leave Hitler and his mad ideas?
Did you get a good view from the tour bus in those countries? Its a big assumption Im making there, but very few people would have had a chance to fully experience and understand the cultures in all those parts.
The first thing you should do to bring your head to a more realistic level, is understand that war is a part of human nature, the day we evolved into man we have been fighting eachother. Fortunately, we have people who are willing to fight wars, putting their own lives on the line, in the name of freedom and peace. Yes yes I see the irony, peace through war but sometimes a relatively quick and sometimes bloody battle is better than generations of torture and suppression.
You seem like the sort of person crying now about how bad the occupation is, but you also seem like the sort of person who will cry about what would happen to the innocent people there were the taliban in control (kissed a man - off with your nose! etc.). I only say this because it seems you value human life, but other people dont value it like they should and put their 'god' infront of it.
Also Im interpreting your posts that all afghans dont want us there, which simply isnt true. There are plenty of examples of local support, we can offer the local afghans a more peaceful and humane way of life allowing their local business and communities to grow with a lot more freedom than the taliban would.
The fact is, you may think its a crime we are there, but the real crime would be if we werent. Its a hard piece of pie to swallow, but its a sad fact of humanity.
![[FnG]magnolia](/styles/overclockers/avatars/9.png){kind=avatar}
Caporegime
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The "media spin" in this case though is just recounting whats in the book.
Its a book review, not a glorification of war
At least 60 % of the content of that article is just quotes from the book, if not more.
The book which the DM was addressing is itself a glorification of a British 'success'. It is not a book review, don't be naive. It's an endorsement, a flag waving exercise that the DM does ever so well and is lapped up by the fools who buy it.
My point was that exactly the same exercise is carried out on the other side, as it were.
Castiel, why won't you answer my previous question regarding the very clear point that the OP was making about the portrayal of the act and not the act itself?
Soldato
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I am quite aware of the justifications and the projected numbers and the good guy bad guy arguments. But it doesn't change the fundamental fact that 250,000 innocents died to stop a war. I no way can I justify that in my mind. You might say it's preposterous but America were already engaged in a pretty extensive bombing campaign already. However it's a spurious argument - I'm not arguing for Japan either - they were just as much to blame in killing hundreds of thousands of people. There is no justification for war from either side but there is a vast difference from defending your country and invading another.
When the Ottoman empire fell, do you not think it was incumbent on those able to attempt to create and support viable statehood in the region, or would it have been ultimately better to allow an entire region to drown itself in local barbarism fuelled by millennia old enmity and tribalism?
Whether the whole thing was abortive and poorly managed is for another debate, however what is pertinent to this one, and your attitude in particular is that we have to deal with the situation as it is today, not how it was in 1918.
So, beside removing our troops from Afghanistan without considering why they were sent there to begin with. what would you suggest would have been a better response to a Regime that was supporting and giving safe haven to Terrorist organisations whose sole purpose is the fall of Western Civilization and it's replacement with an Islamic Caliphate?
I understand perfectly the issues and the complex reasons and history behind many of these groups. I also understand that no-one is entirely blameless and the line between Good Guys and Bad Guys is an illusionary one. However, simply sitting back and allowing others to impose there own ideology by terror and force either on others or ourselves is as heinous a crime as the acts perpetrated themselves.
Cool like dude, the *******'s got exactly what they deservedThat sniper has some great skills he should get a medal imo.
how do you know he deserved it?
maybe he family was killed when we accidently bombed a village, maybe he was only 19, and not even killed anyone yet... maybe he was scared and trying to protect his land / remaining family / friends / way of life against invaders.
I dont even understand why we are there, how would it look to them without easy access to the media... foreigners invade their country and kill 1000's of civilians.
the hole thing is jsut tragic, wasted lives on both sides, fighting for political gains. pull the troops out give them a few billion $ and say sorry... the russians did not win neither will we... there will be two more people step forward to repalce each person that sniper kills...
Well that depends on whether they are rich in oil and other resources, or whether we happen to have cosy trade agreements with them.