DisplayPort 1.2a Specification Change Request for Industry Standard Variable Refresh Rate

[pgi947]

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm looking at the bigger picture.

On one hand we have a group saying vblank freesync is basically all gsync is doing while locking it to nvidia at the same time purely on the basis they can charge a bit extra for it.

On the other, another group are suggesting there must be some other differences between gsync and vblank-freesync due to the amount of monitor manufacturers that have jumped on it, or why no one decided to unearth the DP 1.2a vblank standard up until Nvidia announced gsync, surely, between Asus, Benq, Phillips, Viewsonic, AOC and others ONE of the at some point would have gone 'you know what, vblank will allow for a better gaming experience and the works already done in 1.2a, lets get on the blower to AMD and Nvidia to sort out some drivers for it'

I'm not saying one is better then the other, defending anyone or anything to that point, I'm merely pointing out this whole situation is far far bigger then anyone has realised.


As for the £160 argument, read further into it before damning it, as explained a few times then current premium charged by **** is due to it being a DIY kit, the retailer takes on board the warranty of the monitor, gsync unit as well as man hours spent fitting and testing them, no such hefty charges will apply to retail units, Gibbo (you know, the fella that runs this place?) has already stated 24" benq 144hz gsync units will be sub £300, given at current pricing the cheapest (excluding offers) benq 144hz monitor is £289.99, that leaves at the most, a £10 charge on top of retail...

 

[Silent_Scone]

He does have a point Humbug. I can't see an integrated industry standard being as effective as a stand alone scaler. Or really how different they'll be. The review samples for G-Sync use a Altera designed chip instead of it's own designed integrated circuit, but it has a total of 768MBMB DDR3 which is used to hold previous frames when making overdrive calculations. So it is in itself totally separate to the current DP 1.2.

How likely do people honestly think it is that DP1.2a is going to have a like for like alternative to G-Syncs scaler any time soon, when AMD are only just proposing it...

It's a stretch to compare the two, even if the end result is the same. I can go out and buy a G-Sync panel right now if I wanted to. It's difficult to get too excited about proposed standards. Arguably, it's nothing new. Things become integral over time - all the time. Time will tell when we see side by side comparison, but by that day I'm sure most of you will have moved on to comparing DX12 with Mantle lol.

 

[whyscotty]

The fact a couple of monitor manufactures have an exclusive with Nvidia means they can charge for the privilege. You only need to look at the pricing of identical monitors without G-sync is ~£160 cheaper. £160 extra for a monitor with a small PCB in it is early adopter premium rate.

As far as I know there is only one manufacturer that is using the after market G-sync module, and that as you say comes with a hefty premium.

When these G-sync monitors are mass produced, do you honestly believe the premium will be the same?

 

[ICDP]

As for the £160 argument, read further into it before damning it, as explained a few times then current premium charged by **** is due to it being a DIY kit, the retailer takes on board the warranty of the monitor, gsync unit as well as man hours spent fitting and testing them, no such hefty charges will apply to retail units, Gibbo (you know, the fella that runs this place?) has already stated 24" benq 144hz gsync units will be sub £300, given at current pricing the cheapest (excluding offers) benq 144hz monitor is £289.99, that leaves at the most, a £10 charge on top of retail...

Sorry to burst your bubble but the currently available G-sync monitors cost £160 extra compared to their non G-sync equivalent. This is not a mod but a from scratch direct from the factory Asus monitor. The BenQ models have not had a confirmed price as of yet.

Of course prices will drop as availability increases but my point stands, early adopters have had to pay a ~£160 premium. When/if the new 1.2a standard is ratified newer monitors will simply have it as standard at no extra cost.

 

[Geck0]

I'd go back to a TN panel if it was a decent one. Surprised you've got IPS down there in the outback. Haven't you just had HL2 released.


Laugh

I know I've won when I get stereotyped

 

[andybird123]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the currently available G-sync monitors cost £160 extra compared to their non G-sync equivalent. This is not a mod but a from scratch direct from the factory Asus monitor. The BenQ models have not had a confirmed price as of yet.

Of course prices will drop as availability increases but my point stands, early adopters have had to pay a ~£160 premium. When/if the new 1.2a standard is ratified newer monitors will simply have it as standard at no extra cost.

that is not true, the only current Gsync monitors on the market are with "selected partners" who are fitting the modules in house

 

[Silent_Scone]

I know I've won when I get stereotyped

You get stereotyped because you spoke of TN as 'poopy'. Besides it's funny watching you lot get everything a year later. Makes up for you not letting people in because they got caught smoking cannabis when they were at school. Got more chance of getting a green card for Carealot.

 

[ICDP]

As far as I know there is only one manufacturer that is using the after market G-sync module, and that as you say comes with a hefty premium.

When these G-sync monitors are mass produced, do you honestly believe the premium will be the same?

No, that's why I used the term "early adopters". It has already been made clear that it will be Q2-Q3 before G-sync is more widely available. By then we could be seeing decent spec (DP 1.2a) 4K monitors and decent pricing. I personally feel paying that kind of premium for a ****** TN 1080p screen is lunacy considering the fact that for the first time in a decade, monitor standards are going to be revolutionised.

Within 2 years 4K monitors with newer DP standards will be available for a similar price as currently available G-sync monitors (~£450). Most people's monitor life cycle is far longer than two years. So they could end up stuck with 1080p when everyone else is gaming on 4K.

 

[ICDP]

that is not true, the only current Gsync monitors on the market are with "selected partners" who are fitting the modules in house

Apologies, I got my facts wrong. It seems I am a tool and didn't realise in house meant at retailers workshops.

 

[Final8y]

Surely profit would stem from extra sales to both parties.

The extra profit comes from having something that the other monitor brands dont have which you can charge a premium which Gsync gives the few who have the exclusive deal than not having Gsync, it does not matter that there are a large portions of people who cant run Gsync, they will buy the non Gsync version, but people who want the Gsync version have to also go to therm so its a double win.

If Freesync is adopted by all it will not benefit any particular brand over any other, it will be the Status quo, but as i have said it is not here yet, that does not mean that Gsync should not be offered until then, its not a case of if you cant offer all from the get go you should not offer at all.

 

[pgi947]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the currently available G-sync monitors cost £160 extra compared to their non G-sync equivalent. This is not a mod but a from scratch direct from the factory Asus monitor. The BenQ models have not had a confirmed price as of yet.

Of course prices will drop as availability increases but my point stands, early adopters have had to pay a ~£160 premium. When/if the new 1.2a standard is ratified newer monitors will simply have it as standard at no extra cost.

LOL, so at the factory then?

This isn't your ordinary run of the mill car mate, this one had the wipers fitted in house.

The Selected partners (one of which in the UK) are given/sold gsync modules by nvidia to fit into their own stock line of Asus monitors, it is in no way shape or form shipped from the factory with the module fitted, 'those' versions of the monitor have yet to land at retailers. So yes, as I explained earlier, £160 premium for taking the monitor warranty on the chin and man hours fitting and testing them, it won't be the norm once retail units (which the benq I mentioned will be) hit shelves.

I'm not defending the pricing of them, I personally think its absurd, I'm explaining the logic behind the hefty mark up on those particular monitors.

 

[Silent_Scone]

lol at two months to roll out a new standard and 4k pricing to settle.

Stop taking those stoopid pills.

 

[ICDP]

The Selected partners (one of which in the UK) are given/sold gsync modules by nvidia to fit into their own stock line of Asus monitors, it is in no way shape or form shipped from the factory with the module fitted, 'those' versions of the monitor have yet to land at retailers. So yes, as I explained earlier, £160 premium for taking the monitor warranty on the chin and man hours fitting and testing them, it won't be the norm once retail units (which the benq I mentioned will be) hit shelves.

I'm not defending the pricing of them, I personally think its absurd, I'm explaining the logic behind the hefty mark up on those particular monitors.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. I know now why their is such a massive premium.

 

[Geck0]

You get stereotyped because you spoke of TN as 'poopy'. Besides it's funny watching you lot get everything a year later. Makes up for you not letting people in because they got caught smoking cannabis when they were at school. Got more chance of getting a green card for Carealot.

TN is poop. 2004 called, it wants its tech back.

Define getting everything a year later? I think you might be a little behind the times mate. We are a bit selective about who comes and goes admittedly but nowhere near as bad as the yanks. Here's an old joke for you though - How can you tell when a planeload of Poms lands in Aus?

You can still hear the whining after the engines have shut down

 

[pgi947]

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. I know now why their is such a massive premium.

Yup and I agree its not a pretty one, I got wind of the diy units some time before they launched at that particular retailer, I was sat waiting cash in hand until I saw the mark up.

 

[ICDP]

lol at two months to roll out a new standard and 4k pricing to settle.

Stop taking those stoopid pills.

Who said two months? I said two years for them to be at ~ £440 level. By Q2-Q3 (5-8 months away) 4K monitors could be standard DP 1.2a and decent pricing. There are already 4K monitors planned for Q2-Q3 that are going to cost ~£700-£750.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2085980/prices-of-4k-monitors-fall-to-under-800.html

 

[ICDP]

Yup and I agree its not a pretty one, I got wind of the diy units some time before they launched at that particular retailer, I was sat waiting cash in hand until I saw the mark up.

Apologies again for being a tool and not doing proper research.

 

[pgi947]

Apologies again for being a tool and not doing proper research.

At least you took it on board and held your hands up bud, not something that happens all to often around here

 

[pandem0nium]

4k 120 hz oled screen with freesync, 3D, less than £1k, in a decent size < 27" and I'll be sold.

 

[tommybhoy]

I don't know, go count them.

Quality, laugh of the day award goes your way.

Wheres the extra value in cutting out half of the target audience?

It's called Gsync, it already cuts out half of the target audience, and ties in the other half, there is the value from Nvidia's pov, I won't be surprised if Nvidia don't support Freesync either as it needs driver implementation.

For the here and now, if you want Gsync/Freesync, then Nvidia is first to market and they get your monies.




I also think Gsync will be the better implementation(from the information we have so far), but as said earlier, I only think it's useful for low/mid end gpu's and probably 4K for the high end gpu's.


I won't be entertaining any of them as my 120Hz native 3D panel can play 3D games on AMD and Nvidia, I don't notice tearing as I can push enough frames through it.

What I do find very amusing though is the high end Nvidia users 'forcing the fact' to the forum users 'it's going to change gaming' despite not even seeing it first hand in the flesh due to select PR 'partners' high praise of the tech-IMO, I'm not stressing this as fact!

I haven't once heard any high end Nvidia user on this forum say 'this game is **** and unplayable due to tearing' they always say 'it looks fantastic, one of the best looking yada yada....) and they are the largest shouters of this new tech-FACT