Diving - time to clean the game up?

=XDC=FluphyBunny · 2 Jul 2014 at 11:04

The main thing that annoys me when watching football is the diving.

Why, especially in a highly televised tournament such as the world cup where everyone see's everything that happens, is diving so prevalent?

I have never understood why football won't, or doesn't want to, put a stop it.

Shamikebab · 2 Jul 2014 at 11:15

Because it's hard to be absolutely sure what is a dive and what isn't.

platypus · 2 Jul 2014 at 11:37

Would be easy to do in a large percentage of cases using video technology.

Shamikebab · 2 Jul 2014 at 12:04

It's open to debate really, it's not black and white.

XplosiveHamster · 2 Jul 2014 at 12:12

Worth mentioning how unlikely refs are to give penalties if the attacker stays on his feet after a challenge, it just leads to players getting used to going down easy

FrankJH · 2 Jul 2014 at 12:24

platypus said:
Would be easy to do in a large percentage of cases using video technology.

There is always the case with this about the time delay this causes (in regards to trys being valid or not) - personally I think it works well because in most games trys arent THAT often that are contentious enough for video replays to be required, but I can see that with certain football games diving could happen a lot (especially in europe) this could add minutes and spoil the continuity of games.

Give an instant red to all those who dive, they can happily appeal after the game and have it extended if found that it was a dive (would put intense pressure on every "decision" however, so might well make it impossible for refs)

Would be very difficult for FIFA/UEFA to do anything in all fairness but it would certainly cut out a huge proportion of dives

dannyjo22 · 2 Jul 2014 at 12:57

I liked this piece on the bbc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28100892

How it's creeping into basketball and the Americans at least punish retrospectively. Feigning injury too I'd like to see punished. Especially those ones where you can see the player looking for the ref.

So angered was the Wall Street Journal by the diving taking place in this World Cup, they undertook a study to find out which team play-act the most. The newspaper calculated that during the first 32 games of the tournament, 302 players went to ground, apparently in pain.

These theatrics took up a total of 132 minutes of "writhing time". According to the report, there were nine genuine injuries in a total of 302, leaving 293 cases of "simulation".

Pathetic really. Make those writhing on the floor have a minimum time off the pitch. It will soon stop.

Gilly · 2 Jul 2014 at 13:06

I was surprised that after Robben admitted to it the authorities didn't bat an eyelid.

He specifically stated he had dived in a game in which he did win a penalty (though stressed that he hadn't dived for the penalty - it was a hell of a flop though even if he was fouled) and they didn't even investigate.

Richard_16v · 2 Jul 2014 at 13:15

FrankJH said:
Give an instant red to all those who dive, they can happily appeal after the game and have it extended if found that it was a dive (would put intense pressure on every "decision" however, so might well make it impossible for refs)

Would be very difficult for FIFA/UEFA to do anything in all fairness but it would certainly cut out a huge proportion of dives

I would go with a retrospective ban for diving. Would mean it doesn't hold the game up and rather than risking bad decisions you could give an increasing ban for repeat offenders. Only issue is if a dive was awarded a penalty which won the game then the losing side will not be happy!

Lopéz · 2 Jul 2014 at 13:21

I see no problem at all with retrospective punishment. Football is so behind the times, look at rugby or tennis and football just doesn't seem credible stacked up against them.

MikeTheNative · 2 Jul 2014 at 13:25

Shamikebab said:
Because it's hard to be absolutely sure what is a dive and what isn't.

This really, at the moment is has become acceptable to go down if there is contact even if said contact is not enough to actually fell a player. Technically that is a dive.

Derek W · 2 Jul 2014 at 13:25

Show any modern day footballer a challenge like these :-

and compare it to the way they go down after the slightest touch.

timebomb26 · 2 Jul 2014 at 13:51

As someone mentioned it will never completely go away unless referees start giving fouls even when a player doesn't go down. Many a time if a player gets fouled but stays on his feet he doesn't get a free kick, even if his a ability to play on is hindered.

Robben is a ridiculous diver though. Admittedly I thought it was a penalty against Mexico, but the way he threw himself after the contact makes it look rather ridiculous.

Feigning injury is the worst. Love it when the ref completely ignores them.

RedvGreen · 2 Jul 2014 at 14:06

Lopéz said:
I see no problem at all with retrospective punishment. Football is so behind the times, look at rugby or tennis and football just doesn't seem credible stacked up against them.

Technology and retrospective actions need to be more prevalent in football.

Just relying on the referee, his 2 linesmen and the fourth official is poor, especially when you have cameras everywhere. There are times during the current World Cup where the referee has taken a moment to replay the actions in his own mind, and to decide on the best course of action. Yes, he does ask his officials, but there is only so much that 4 people from various areas of the pitch can see, especially when you are trying to keep an eye on 22 players and the ball at all times.

Football should be about skill, strategy and planning. Currently it is just to run into the other penalty box and then dive and try to blame an opposition defender for a dangerous tackle when your side is all out of skill or energy/motivation.

Similarly though, pathetic intimidation (physical attacks/occurrences) and genuine dangerous tackles and hacks do occur, out of spite or just the evolution of the football that the specific person evolved playing.

drunkenmaster · 2 Jul 2014 at 14:19

dannyjo22 said:
I liked this piece on the bbc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28100892

How it's creeping into basketball and the Americans at least punish retrospectively. Feigning injury too I'd like to see punished. Especially those ones where you can see the player looking for the ref.

So angered was the Wall Street Journal by the diving taking place in this World Cup, they undertook a study to find out which team play-act the most. The newspaper calculated that during the first 32 games of the tournament, 302 players went to ground, apparently in pain.

These theatrics took up a total of 132 minutes of "writhing time". According to the report, there were nine genuine injuries in a total of 302, leaving 293 cases of "simulation".

Pathetic really. Make those writhing on the floor have a minimum time off the pitch. It will soon stop.

That article is genuinely horrendous, ignoring the fact that I've actually not seen any direct unedited quotes from Robben(ie the transcript) and that almost every story has slightly different take(suggesting it's edited to suit the story).

132minutes were simulation because players didn't get stretched and subbed off? What an absolute crock, if someone stamps on your foot, it can cause intense pain that subdues after anything from 5 seconds to a couple of minutes. Just because there is no actual game ending injury does not prove there is no pain.

It's how pain works, something hurts, it stops you in your tracks, the pain stays you know there is something serious, it goes away it was just a knock, it doesn't mean the pain isn't real or that you don't stop for a short time. That isn't how pain works, the study decided that anyone who didn't end up having a leg amputated was faking it, it's absurd.

As was the suggestion by someone in the Robben article on the BBC that "his arms came out... thus a dive"... yeah, because when most people are tripped they leave their arms by their side and go face first into the turf... sure.

Completely making stuff up, then the BBC reporting on it, sounds about right, but a good article... no, not even close.

By their definition the defender yesterday who landed and we all saw his ankle go right over, he writhed around on the floor, play was stopped so he could get treatment but because he played on he was faking? It's completely and utterly absurd. The Wall Street jackass can't remotely determine through video if a player was really in pain or not making their "study" laughable. Pain is meant to make us stop and check everything is okay, and it can hurt a hell of a lot and be fine 30 seconds later.

drunkenmaster · 2 Jul 2014 at 14:22

Moses said:
The ball's only in play two thirds of the time. The idea that football's epically free-flowing, with a challenge system of some kind potentially ruining that, is hilarious.

Not least because as I say each time stoppages and delaying play is brought up, if everyone for two weeks gets caught and punished for each dive, with no upside and only a downside players will simply stop doing it.

Video replay, first 2-4 weeks, hilarious, managers not knowing when to challenge, ref not sure when to use it himself and players not sure what they'll get away with. Half a dozen games finishing with 6 men a side for all the shirt pulling, diving and bad tackles... then magically players will simply not pull shirts, won't dive, won't do bad tackles.

Players will do anything they can get away with, if they don't get away with it they won't do it... it's that simple. There is an advantage with every defender pulling shirts and holding on, when there is no advantage because you concede a penalty every time, there is no reason to do it.

Trusty · 2 Jul 2014 at 15:15

No doubt something needs to be done, its getting worse and worse. Just introduce a stop clock like American football and Basketball, sorted.

The ball is in play generally about 25 mins per half in the PL. Make each half 30 mins with a stop clock. You'd find a lot less feigning going on within a week...

Football is in the dark ages when it comes to reducing human error within the game.

=XDC=FluphyBunny · 3 Jul 2014 at 11:08

Shamikebab said:
Because it's hard to be absolutely sure what is a dive and what isn't.

Shamikebab said:
It's open to debate really, it's not black and white.

I have seen a good number of dives that are black and white and not open to debate. Video ref's plus retrospective punishment would go a long way in returning the game to where it should be. It is incredible to me that a very lucrative professional competitive sport allows cheating to be such a common theme.

Shamikebab · 3 Jul 2014 at 11:20

Yes some, but not all. Hence not black and white.

Take the standard attacker trying to win back the ball from a defender, makes contact and the defender goes down to win the freekick. This happens in every single game, is it a dive? Would you like them all banned?

AGD · 3 Jul 2014 at 11:22

Trusty said:
No doubt something needs to be done, its getting worse and worse. Just introduce a stop clock like American football and Basketball, sorted.

The ball is in play generally about 25 mins per half in the PL. Make each half 30 mins with a stop clock. You'd find a lot less feigning going on within a week...

Football is in the dark ages when it comes to reducing human error within the game.

Yes, time wasting is the most annoying thing for me. It is not entertaining for fans in any way, and is bad for the game. Stop clocks would pretty much make the issue disappear overnight. No more slow free-kicks, goal kicks, walking slowly to sub off etc.