DIY ensuite bathroom replacement - build log

[Participant]

Finally got a bit more done today. Between work, Euro 2024, exercising, and other family stuff, it's really hard to get time (wah).

It would help if I could make myself do it in the evening, but TV and a glass of wine is too tempting.

Anyway updates...

- Shower tray arrived, so I test fitted that to check where the waste will sit compared to the steel and joist. Should just about be ok, but I think I'll need to fit the wall board over the tray rather than behind. The tray weighs 55Kg and it was a real struggle to get it upstairs on my own!

- Fan and fan vent pipe fully installed now with a three pole isolator. Configured it to come on with its own switch so there's a two gang switch doing the fan and the lights independently, which I really like as you don't have to have both on if not needed. I don't think light switches in a bathroom are to spec, but it's how I want it and it's much better than having it outside and / or on an ugly pull string, so I don't care. The fan (Manrose MF100T) is great; very quiet and powerful.

- First fix electrics also done for UFH, wall mounted double toothbrush charger (£60 ), niche led strip, and cabinet.

- Test fitted the Grohe dunny and realised I needed about 5 ancillary bits to make the waste work. On order.

- Spent about another £50 at Screwfix on copper pipe and connectors, foam, and Wago bits.

- Took up some floorboards to start working out the plumbing for the shower (there's no hot pipe near where it's needed as it was an electric shower).

 

[Participant]

can you do anything to verify flow rate at the high shower head for hot water will be OK ? (neighbours ?)
i have a 30kw ideal combi, you can't really have 2 simultaneous hot water users in the house, and to boot, were about highest point in the village with fairly low water pressure,
so usually the first to call in when one of the water board booster pumps has broken, about 3 times a year.

Yeah we have pretty good static water pressure, nearly 4 bar. We're fairly close to river level so not sure if that helps.

We also have an existing shower off the combi in another bathroom and it's pretty good; even when someone's using water elsewhere it's much better than a puny electric one.

Another point is that I'm intending to have an unvented cylinder installed at some point in the next year or two.

Comes with everything except a straight rear connector annoyingly, the only piece I needed, and the 110mm adapter is designed for a socket, not just a pipe. Either way you end up with more potential failure points than a "normal" toilet.

Yes a straight rear connector is really required for UK plumbing. You can't go out horizontally with the default kit as the pipe is too close to the back of the frame.

Ah yeah fair. I think I got mine from Amazon for 17 quid.

Exactly the one I've ordered. Should be with me on Thursday then I can finally fit the frame, no doubt with some more farting about.

 

[Participant]

Well I've ended up removing the entire sub floor (~18mm T&G boards) today, partly to make the plumbing easier (or possible really) and partly because the floor was just not strong enough for a bathroom floor.

I'm glad I did because I found a few more appalling examples of lazy / incompetent work...waste pipes going upwards, unsupported pipes, unsecured joists wobbling about, LOTS of building waste left there, no insulation.

I'm fitting 18mm structural ply in its place across the whole floor once I've braced everything.

Have a look at this diamond. That pipe was the basin drain and we now know why it was draining slowly .

Removing this was disgusting, loads of smelly sludge stuck at the bottom.

 

[Participant]

To quote the Welsh social media building inspector: Shocking.

At least you've now got the perfect opportunity to take that waste and perhaps hot and cold feed into the wall, which will make for a nice finish and better fixing.

Yes that's the plan, put all pipes (water, waste, heating) into stud wall or chased into bricks.

 

[Participant]

Some of those waste pipes look like ones I found in my bathroom, so many running uphill and with really poor joints under the floor. No need as the pipe run could have been done in one, just sheer laziness.

For the floor I'd recommend this. Joints don't need to land on a joist, and gives a very solid floor. Used it for my bathroom floor and wouldnt go back to ply.

I had no idea this was a structural sub floor material, I thought it was a strong tile backer. Interesting, I'll take a look thanks.

 

[Participant]

Today's work was to double check the shower tray fitting - I moved the joist over slightly as it was just floating on an RSJ (!) but it still wouldn't quite work with backer board behind it, so I'm going to have to bring the board down to the tray otherwise the joist will just be in the way of the trap. Once the tray was lined up, I marked centres for the valve and rain head.

Also spent a few hours reinforcing the floor with 2x4, focused around the tray area. It's made a huge difference to the integrity of the floor; almost no wobble now so I'm confident that ply / no more ply + tile backer will be a good solid floor which combined with S2 adhesive, should prevent any tile or grout cracks.

Next big job is first fix plumbing, which I've been procrastinating over for far too long in true DIY fashion.

Just remember that your stud wallvused to sit on top of some supported timber and now you've cut off one side so I'd get some noggins into that stud wall.

Yes I'd clip all the pipework (both the wastes, hot/cold and heating.

Get yourself some of these if you want to make it easier than making timbers for it.

Telescopic Stud and Joist Bracket 16in - 24in (40cm - 55cm)

For insulation if its a heated room below then it's not really needed. I would add it for sound insulation more than anything else.


I also wouldn't bother with electrical floor heating, it's expensive to run.

This bathroom is directly above an unheated garage so although it will have XPS board, I'm definitely going to insulate between the joists as it's the last time to do so until the bathroom is next replaced in 15 (?!) years, so I might as well do it right now.

Electric UFH - this is just for warming the floor and drying up water spills, rather than being the primary source of heat for the room. It's very popular and having had it before, I wouldn't be without it in a bathroom. Cost to run is peanuts vs. the benefit, for me anyway.

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

 

[Participant]

electric - are you getting a hybrid towel rail (personally heating is either on, or towels can be hung outside)

Do you have to anticipate where shower door/frame will anchor into ceiling/floor (never saw what the builders did at parents place, but need to anticipate you could put a fair amount of weight against tempered glass)

Sorry, missed this. I'm going for a traditional wet only towel rail, reason being we have a Tado system so I can control the rail individually anyway with a smart TRV.

Might end up regretting that, but the rail has been purchased.

With the shower door / frame, the answer is yes and I'm fitting an additional stud to screw into ok the stud wall side.

Tbh at this rate I might as well ply the entirety of the stud walls, given how much I need to screw into them!

 

[Participant]

Finally got a bit more done this weekend.

Main achievement was learning solder plumbing, incredibly without a single leak on my first attempt. I was utterly convinced there'd be water spraying everywhere. I'm a fan now - cheaper fittings, quicker than compression once you get the hang of it, more reliable.

Also

- Plumbed new 32mm waste run to stack for basin and leak tasted - aok
- Mounted recessed shower valve and elbow for shower head
- Framed niche
- More floor reinforcement
- Chased out bricks for towel rail pipes

 

[Participant]

Finished the water supply and heating pipes first fix today. Just the shower drain to be done now, in terms of under the floor plumbing.

I've found my first mistake (that I'm aware of lol). I test fitted the shower head today to check it was high enough and realised that the LED light over the shower is positioned directly over where the shower head will be, casting an annoying shadow.

Not sure what to do but I'm currently minded to move it laterally and add another downlight (which requires buying another pack of 6!).

New pipes plumbed for towel rad and pipes all clipped and protected with plates when running across top of joists.

Need to get some pipe insulation (dirt cheap) tomorrow and will also put down loft-style insulation in the void.

Ready to trial fit the shower tray (on the 18mm structural ply) to get the waste positioned correctly:

 

[Participant]

Found this when Googling for a solution lmao

 

[Participant]

OK boobs are funny but what do I do about the light over the shower head?

 

[Participant]

Have you tried pushing the light back into the socket to see how the shadow looks then? It may not be as bad as you think. The reason it's so dramatic is that you are getting a strong reflection off the chrome showerhead from the light when it's dangling so close.

Thanks for this. It's made me "reflect" on things and I'm going to finish the room and see how it looks before deciding whether or not to change it.

It'll be easy to reconfigure the ceiling lights after the rest of the room is done.

Point of note: the top of the showerhead is black rather than chrome and I now see why (as well as cost saving).

 

[Participant]

Move the spotlight rather than buy an additional one?

I'm going to fit everything then see if it's still an issue. Moving just that one might look weird.

 

[Participant]

This evening I

- Cut the shower waste hole in the ply
- Wiped old and new flux off the copper pipes
- Lagged the pipes (or most of them - I ran out so back to Screwfix tmrw...again)
- Tried out some tile samples
- Pressure tested the Grohe valve

 

[Participant]

Looking good. Tike Mountain sample?

Yes indeed. As you may be able to tell, our tastes are not very exciting! Have found previously with "designer" statements that you can go off them, so we're playing it safe for longevity.

Seems a good place though prices wise, although 3 out of 4 of the samples were chipped, which doesn't bode well for the full order.

 

[Participant]

Today has been pretty productive, albeit a little slow as ever as I procrastinate far too much to try and avoid any mistakes.

- Plumbed shower trap and valve
- Test fitted and leak / pressure tested shower trap, tray, and valve
- Insulated remaining pipes and floor
- Glued (with mega-strength PU adhesive) and screwed half the ply down - no going back now if there are any leaks under that section! Or at least it would be a giant PITA.
- Burnt my hand when a gob of solder was spat out of one of the fittings. Was lucky it didn't hit me in the eye...safety glasses for soldering from now on.

Shower valve plumbing:

Floor insulation:

Checking what I need the depth of the tray mortar bed to be for a flush fit once UFH and SLC is installed:

Shower waste trap (McAlpine 40mm) installed:

Half the floor now fixed definitively!

P.S. one of the studs was bowing out significantly so I started planing it with my hand planer, then realised it was going to take all day and went to ScrewFix and got their £40 Titan electric planer. Absolutely fantastic!

Not sure if too late..

Blank off that one and add an extractor that has a built in light, which is what I did and it works fine in a similar position to where yours is located.

Linky

Appreciate the idea; I've already fitted a Manrose MF100T inline fan before I even started the rip out, which has really good extraction rates and is very quiet, so if it's an issue once everything is fitted, it'll have to be another solution.

 

[Participant]

Agreed, tile mountain offer a great selection at fantastic prices. I've found the same tile before with them that the local tile stores were selling at twice the price.

If you haven't already heard, I'd look at classic seal tape for sealing the sides of your shower tray against the backer boards on the wall. Skills builder did a video on it.

I'm going to be using that after doing a full waterproofing coating on the tile backer boards joins and corner in the shower area. Proper belt and braces.

Ha yes I think I've watched all of Roger Bisby's relating to bathrooms. They're very good.

I got an Abacus No More Leaks shower sealing kit from Rubber Duck. I preferred it to the classiseal because from what I can tell, it forms an upstand rather than going behind the tray, which I thought sounded better.

Also got a full tanking kit with tape etc. from Nassboard.

 

[Participant]

Finally finished installing the wall-hung WC frame and associated framing today. Also used some expanding foam on the pipes and some holes in the floor / wall.

 

[Participant]

All I managed today was to create some bog-roll storage boxes next to the john.

Not sure why I'm so slow with everything. Don't know where the time goes as it doesn't feel like I'm farting about much when I'm doing it.

 

[Participant]

Just realised that bottom shelf won't work at its current size and position, because the floor build up will leave a tiny wall-tile cut at the bottom. Doh.

Need to either adjust both boxes to make them even, or build up the lower shelf and accept that they'll be different heights. Another classic example of 'a pro would have spotted that'!