Do fast cars provide long term satisfaction?

Soldato
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Most fast FWD cars struggle to put all of their power down. They aren't necessarily safer either, you can understeer off the road if you go too crazy and unlike oversteer you can't really correct it. You can only lift off, straighten the wheel and pray for grip before you hit something.

RWD takes more getting used to but it's more balanced and you can use the power to help steer it. What gets people in RWD cars is they think they are the stig, switch TC off and end up spinning it. Modern RWD sports cars will allow some slide, but wont spin with TC on. When I first got my GT86 it was on slippy tyres and felt like it wanted to let go all the time, but it won't. Just gotta learn to trust it.
 
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I feel more confident when pressing on with a FWD car vs a RWD car, but the RWD cars have always seemed more "fun". If the tail hangs out slightly when pushing it round a corner on a country lane then you get it back in line, its all very exciting and gets your heart going, but it doesn't feel as safe as finding the edge of your available grip in a FWD car.

Oh totally, hence my point, on track completely, with low risk then RWD, its by its nature closer to a more problematic position to solve, so it will get your heart racing, thats the bodies reaction to a dangerous scenario.

I guess its the personal acceptable behaviour point for driving on the roads. Is it acceptable to have the tail out a bit when driving on the roads. To me no. I know a lot here will not agree, but personally I see anything where the car is basically requiring correction to be fully in control as beyond acceptable for public roads. Its a risk, albeit low, but its a risk, one that 99.99999% of the time will be fine, but that one time where maybe another event happens, so such as some mud being on the road as well, so that minor tail out suddenly become a full spin across the opposite side of the road is the point when a little fun can go far beyond the fun any more.

Oddly from my forays into RWD the lower powered slower cars were the more fun ones than the higher powered (I have never driven a genuine high power, say 500+ BHP RWD) ones. Its the reason behind the GT86 if you look back to the thought process, a RWD, relatively light, relatively powerful, but made "fun" by putting tyres that were not of the level you would have put into the car if aiming for a "fast" car.

It was why i got rid of my scoob when I did, so capable it means to start to trigger fun you go fast, proper fast, and then when something eventually goes wrong its going to be horrible.

The edge is easier for sure with FWD, you will start to get actual understeer and thats pretty easy to fix if your not an idiot, ie you have found the edge rather than just going silly with no understanding where that edge could be.
RWD is much harder, the line seems narrow, and the reaction of the car goes quickly from a minor issue to a far bigger one its also far harder to explore on public roads. Most people dont get any experience of this as the traction and safety systems stop them being idiots. I made a post about this some time ago, but they way a lot of people drive these powerful RWD cars now they are 100% reliant on the technology.
 
Caporegime
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I guess its the personal acceptable behaviour point for driving on the roads. Is it acceptable to have the tail out a bit when driving on the roads. To me no. I know a lot here will not agree, but personally I see anything where the car is basically requiring correction to be fully in control as beyond acceptable for public roads.

I agree, but I do it anyway because I am an irresponsible hooligan. :(
"Do as I say not as I do." :p

Though I did mean when it happens unintentionally rather than deliberately kicking the tail out :)
 
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Most fast FWD cars struggle to put all of their power down. They aren't necessarily safer either, you can understeer off the road if you go too crazy and unlike oversteer you can't really correct it. You can only lift off, straighten the wheel and pray for grip before you hit something.

RWD takes more getting used to but it's more balanced and you can use the power to help steer it. What gets people in RWD cars is they think they are the stig, switch TC off and end up spinning it. Modern RWD sports cars will allow some slide, but wont spin with TC on. When I first got my GT86 it was on slippy tyres and felt like it wanted to let go all the time, but it won't. Just gotta learn to trust it.

YOu can use the throttle to steer any car, its just different.
I used to know the guy who held the world record for driving sideways, Simon, he did it in a scoob, and he controlled the whole thing, which took something like 2 hours, just by the throttle
He stopped when he got cramp, the record was increased last in I think 2016

If you go significantly into understeer as your indicating then if you compare significantly into oversteer its just as impossible to get back, as by then physics are in control.

I think its so much easier to get into understeer scenarios as you will tend to drive closer to the limit as its easier to find. As I said before the book I was reading which I am desperately trying to remeber the name of as it was lent to me on holiday last month was written by an ex racing driver who said people forget that RWD cars also understeer, they are less prone to it, but it happens as well. Its just more situationally dependant, and also its likely that the oversteer will also kick in and the driver will miss the understeer was actually partly responsible for the oversteer.
 
Caporegime
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Most 'normal' cars defer to understeer because your average driver, be that a suburban housewife of middle aged gentleman, wouldn't have the foggiest idea what to do if the back end stepped out on a rear wheel drive car. Understeer is inherently safer as most drivers will instinctively easy off the accelerator if think get messy which will often tuck the nose back into line.
 
Soldato
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I'm in the same boat here as a many, 2006 mk5 dsg GTi. 200bhp as standard, few mods on, love driving it. Nice interior, comfortable even when lowered and it's great fun but you get used to the power.

My choices are:

invest in the golf, look at forging engine, K04 hybrid, decent diff and handling/braking mods, maps looking at 400-450bhp
Similar money, upgrade to an S4, more space for the growing family, newer 2010+, 137bhp more as standard but heavy and you lose the hot hatch feel and the VW community.
Get the golf handling mods, mapped with the current setup and get myself a motorbike :D

Ideally, I'd give the gti to the wife and mod it, get a bike and an S4 but I don't think she'll allow that :D
 
Associate
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I switched from a 405BHP Golf R DSG to an FN2 Type R. The Golf was stupid in a straight line but just boring and un-involving to drive over all. The Civic rarely sees VTEC to be fair but when I do want to have a bit of a blast it is way more engaging to drive than the Golf was and cost less than a quarter of the price...

I can see me running the Civic for several more years then maybe moving to something new but more on the comfortable side of things with no real power/speed requirements.
 
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I switched from a 405BHP Golf R DSG to an FN2 Type R. The Golf was stupid in a straight line but just boring and un-involving to drive over all. The Civic rarely sees VTEC to be fair but when I do want to have a bit of a blast it is way more engaging to drive than the Golf was and cost less than a quarter of the price...

I can see me running the Civic for several more years then maybe moving to something new but more on the comfortable side of things with no real power/speed requirements.


As I enlightened earlier in this thread, power is not everything, power is nice but what is more important is how a car tingles the senses.

A car at 100mph that feels like your only doing 50mph, will become boring fast. Whereas a car that when you do 50mph feels like 100mph, will rarely every become boring.

I drove a lot of super cars, the one I went with in the end was the slowest in a straight line, though a 458 is not slow by any standards but compared to the competitor offerings it was slowest. It was also the most engaging to drive, even just pushing it at say 6/7 tenths the car feels so fast, so engaging that it is fun at legal speeds, which to be frank in something so capable is a true achievement. You can drive it also at 9 or even 10 tenths and the car is simply insane, you just do not need too. Whereas with some of the other cars I drove, they were not fun until you were pushing very hard and thus doing very illegal speeds by doing so.

The Ferrari is so rewarding in all driving styles, smooth and neat or drive it like an M3 and slide the thing around, it just rewards on a level I've never experienced from any car before, the M3 I used to enjoy driving, but I hardly ever drive it any more, now I just tend to drive the Ferrari and Clio.
 
Caporegime
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TBH I find my Volvo equally as exciting to drive as my MX5 but for totally different reasons. The MX5 was nimble and fun to chuck around, has the roof-off novelty, and RWD immaturity when desired. The Volvo makes a fantastic noise, the acceleration is great, its very comfortable, surprises people, and doesnt handle too badly considering what it is.

For my next car I really need something which combines the good aspects of both.
 
Soldato
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TBH I find my Volvo equally as exciting to drive as my MX5 but for totally different reasons. The MX5 was nimble and fun to chuck around, has the roof-off novelty, and RWD immaturity when desired. The Volvo makes a fantastic noise, the acceleration is great, its very comfortable, surprises people, and doesnt handle too badly considering what it is.

For my next car I really need something which combines the good aspects of both.

Thread title is 'fast cars' :p
 
Associate
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Had an m135i for just over a year, and no sheer power does not equal satisfaction. Granted it's not the most powerful but it does have 320 bhp which is more than enough, and really too much for our roads.
The car is boring to drive imo, it scratched an itch for a while but i find myself lusting after things that may deliver more driver involvement at speeds that wouldn't lose me the license!
 
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Had an m135i for just over a year, and no sheer power does not equal satisfaction. Granted it's not the most powerful but it does have 320 bhp which is more than enough, and really too much for our roads.
The car is boring to drive imo, it scratched an itch for a while but i find myself lusting after things that may deliver more driver involvement at speeds that wouldn't lose me the license!


To be honest no such thing as too much power for the roads, I've driven an 800HP Mustang on the road, used the lot. Use all 570 in the 458 and used all 600 plus in the SVR on a regular basis. Its more about the chassis and enjoyment the total package gives. I did Scotland last weekend in very mixed conditions, but even in the wet could still use all 570HP in a RWD car. But at the same time everyone has different limits too, but I've never struggled to use all the power or lack of my cars have on the road.
 
Soldato
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To be honest no such thing as too much power for the roads, I've driven an 800HP Mustang on the road, used the lot. Use all 570 in the 458 and used all 600 plus in the SVR on a regular basis. Its more about the chassis and enjoyment the total package gives. I did Scotland last weekend in very mixed conditions, but even in the wet could still use all 570HP in a RWD car. But at the same time everyone has different limits too, but I've never struggled to use all the power or lack of my cars have on the road.

You may well be able to use it all, traction wise but you can’t use it for very long!
 
Soldato
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Fastest car I've had was 200bhp and even that was pointless in today's traffic where I live.

Funnily enough my current car has 140bhp and it's the longest I've ever owned a car.
 
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