Do Space Aliens really exist?

[Trusty]

Not it does not.

Time is ones own measurement, perception and velocity in space.

This is not up for debate mate

Time exists, the best scientists in the world working in LHC all use time as a measurement for the direction of the universe. It doesn't matter whether you call it time or you call it poop bags, it represents the same thing.

 

[Glaucus]

your questions make no sense, what happens to singularity of a black hole expires and thus mavity.


again show a time that something has randomly reversed time, jumped from one instance of time to another etc.

it absolutely is not just a perception, you realise gps satellites need there time changing constantly due to special relativity.

the universe is running in a direction.

 

[itchy]

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-09/book-excerpt-there-no-such-thing-time

Time is a man made construct.

 

[Trusty]

As we live, we seem to move through a succession of Nows," says Barbour, "and the question is, what are they?" For Barbour each Now is an arrangement of everything in the universe.

It's really irrelevant whether you want to call it nows or time, it still represents the same thing. That dude is just trying to be different so he can make a name for himself, 99% of scientists at LHC would say this is a non issue which is just wasting time trying to debate something so insignificant.

 

[Glaucus]

one scientist doesn't mae a whole. you haven't proved anything with a link.

and is exactly as I described earlier, I thought you where taking from him.

now read what he says. it makes no sense.

its like ripping all the pages from a book, throwing them on the floor, each page is a NOW, you can move from one page to another, evrythign exists at the same time.

this isn't what is observed. we don't go from the middle of the book, to a random page at the start. Also it isn't a now, because every single human has always matched their experience. We don't disagree on what we perceive. I don't go to the start of the book, while you vanish and go to the end of the book.

again how ever you describe it or want t name it, there is a direction, that direction most people call time. you can call it what ever you want, its still a thing.

your problem is you think time is seconds, minutes etc.
it doesn't matter how you describe it or the underlying physics. time exists as the universe is moving in a single direction.

Some for some reason don't like the word time and try using a different word for the universe moving in a single direction.

 

[itchy]

As we live, we seem to move through a succession of Nows," says Barbour, "and the question is, what are they?" For Barbour each Now is an arrangement of everything in the universe.

It's really irrelevant whether you want to call it nows or time, it still represents the same thing. That dude is just trying to be different so he can make a name for himself, 99% of scientists at LHC would say this is a non issue which is just wasting time trying to debate something so insignificant.

But if time does not exist you aint wasting anything.

We live in the here and now the is no back and no forward so we exist in the now.

Aliens might exist in the don't give a ****, when, now or future attitude.

 

[Glaucus]

but we do exist in a now that is moving forward and only moves forward, same for any alien.
how are you not understanding this.

call it what ever you want, its the direction that is important.

 

[Trusty]

But if time does not exist you aint wasting anything.

We live in the here and now the is no back and no forward so we exist in the now.

Aliens might exist in the don't give a ****, when, now or future attitude.

You're wasting now's instead?

I get the philosophy behind what he's trying to say, we do live in the now and only the now but we've called it time for ages, there's no point ripping up the rule book to call it something else because you don't gain anything from it.

 

[itchy]

Its a crazy thing and I have thought and looked into it a lot.

My personal thoughts on this is.........

Are the Aliens in the universe? Of bloody course the is.

Are we the most advanced in the universe? Of course not.

Are we ready to meet new alien species? ^^^^^^^^

We cannot even sort out own people out without conflict.

If you clever enough to travel the stars you clever enough to stay the **** away from us lot.

 

[Glaucus]

why?
there's a lot to be said for convergent evolution, in which case you would expect aliens to be very like us.

we are ready to meet aliens, because we will never be ready to meet them. we will always have issues to solve and improve. that's part of nature, and there's no reason to think a perfect civilisation would exist or ever will.

 

[Trusty]

If you clever enough to travel the stars you clever enough to stay the **** away from us lot.

Yea, this is what find funny about people who think aliens have come to earth, like they would have any use for us, a complete insignificance if you can travel the stars.

and there's no reason to think a perfect civilisation would exist or ever will.

Maybe not perfect but certainly very close, if a civilisation can travel the galaxies, i bet they would have an extremely moral world. Morality and technology are linked i think. If they can travel the stars then i presume they wouldn't have people starving for example, they could just create food out of nothing, there would be no manual labour, people would be free to do what they wish without ever having to think about sustenance.

 

[Glaucus]

Yea, this is what find funny about people who think aliens have come to earth, like they would have any use for us, a complete insignificance if you can travel the stars.

same reason we explore, curiosity. We are trying to find alien live, its even possible we could build ships to colonise other star systems, if we had the will.

again I see no reason why you would think like this, other than some dream of a nice perfect civilisation, which would go against evolution.

the last few years hasn't been good for your technology - morale link. look at laws in Russia despite advances in technology, look at rise of nationalism across the globe etc.

morale simply makes it possible to work and live together. Morale will constantly shift depending what the struggles are.
why would you think they wouldn't starve this also makes no sense. the world has enough resources and wealth to feed everyone, yet we collectively keep buying stuff we don't need and ensurring are group is well looked after.

 

[itchy]

why?
there's a lot to be said for convergent evolution, in which case you would expect aliens to be very like us.

we are ready to meet aliens, because we will never be ready to meet them. we will always have issues to solve and improve. that's part of nature, and there's no reason to think a perfect civilisation would exist or ever will.

Yes I agree with artistic, cultural and music etc............

But if you were zapping about the stars and came across our MSM, would you like to visit?

 

[Trusty]

same reason we explore, curiosity. We are trying to find alien live, its even possible we could build ships to colonise other star systems, if we had the will.

again I see no reason why you would think like this, other than some dream of a nice perfect civilisation, which would go against evolution.

the last few years hasn't been good for your technology - morale link. look at laws in Russia despite advances in technology, look at rise of nationalism across the globe etc.

Dude, the world is in a far better place than 500 years ago. Just because of one spurious example of a country not doing so well is not indicative of how technology has changed our lives for the better. Disease, child mortality, communication, transport, production of food etc etc..

If a civilisation has the ability to travel from one galaxy to another, they will certainly have the ability to create food from practically nothing, have ai which can do all manual work. People would literally be free to do anything they want. They wouldn't have an evolutionary scale like us because they've intercepted that evolution with technology. Just like we've intercepted evolution with saving people from death and disease using technology.

 

[Glaucus]

yes it is better than 500 years ago, but its not just one country is it.
we are still the by products of our evolution.
ai and robots wont suddenly get rid of the elite or the oppressed. it takes far more than just technology.

Yes I agree with artistic, cultural and music etc............

But if you were zapping about the stars and came across our MSM, would you like to visit?

yes, finding life is a huge thing, why wouldn't they have the same curiosity as us. why do you assume they would be like star trek. The chances are they wont be zipping around the universe at such a nonchalant speed, they'll be similar to us. looking, learning and having to spend an extremely long time traveling between systems.

 

[calp0l]

Update: Night two in Discord, just told him about this thread. He's gone off one one again :C

.. So his opinion is GOD is The Space Aliens. I'm in for a long night damn!!

 

[Angilion]

Probably? Not necessarily.

Whilst I believe that they probably exist, there is a strong argument which is along the lines of, if they do exist then why haven't we seen any yet?

There are a variety of answers to Fermi's Paradox (which is what the argument you're refering to is usually called). It's not really a paradox.

The simplest answer is one of scale:

If a civilisation explored a million stellar systems per year, it would take in the region of 100,000,000,000,000,000 years for it to explore the observable universe. Which is about 700,000,000 times as long as the universe has existed for.

Even if they were actively scanning for other civilisations, the sheer scale of the observable universe would be against them looking here from close enough to here and within the last century.

Even that is assuming that their observable universe overlaps ours. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe the universe is bigger than we can observe and they're >13.8 billion lightyears away from us.

There are various other answers.

Maybe they're not looking for other civilisations and not exploring much. Perhaps there are civilisations spanning one or a few stellar systems and content with stability or slow expansion. Given the scale of the universe, a vast civilisation of a million stars would take up a miniscule part of the observable universe.

Maybe hardly any civilisations survive long enough to scan more than a tiny part of the universe a little bit. There are many ways to extinction.

Maybe there aren't any around right now. Perhaps there were advanced civilisations a billion years ago that have since died out.

Maybe we're amongst the first generation of civilisations. Conditions in the universe were unsuitable for life for a very long time (and still are in many places). Perhaps there are other civilisations out there but they are at roughly the same level of technology that we are. Maybe we're the first species to get this far. Perhaps the next most advanced life in the universe is at the same sort of level as homo erectus. Or maybe only single-celled organisms.

Maybe they know we exist but want to avoid contact with us, either because they think our societies are so messed up that we'd contaminate theirs or because they think that contact with them would ruin us. Star Trek's Prime Directive wasn't random nonsense made up to be a plot device.

 

[Trusty]

yes it is better than 500 years ago, but its not just one country is it.
we are still the by products of our evolution.
ai and robots wont suddenly get rid of the elite or the oppressed. it takes far more than just technology.

Yea, it definitely takes more than just technology, but where you find civilisations with technological proficiency, you usually find a better standard of living. It would be a slow & arduous process, naturally, and it still wouldn't be perfect but it would be pretty incredible. No manual labour, no food worries, no water worries, technology stepping in and saving people from disease and death, life prolonging chambers. There would be no need for the fight or flight in animals anymore, there would be no reason to fight over resources.

 

[Glaucus]

that's the thing though, I believe there would be, you just move issues. fight or flight is built in to us, just like a certain percent of the population, will always be greedy, will always be cheaters etc. Its part of us and technology doesn't remove it. Plenty of extremely rich people who don't need to, still play the system

 

[Trusty]

We have evidence that world is a better place, because we see it, ok it's not perfect but it's far better than it was 500 years ago, it's far better than 10,000 years ago, move forward another 10,000 years and i can certainly imagine a pretty utopian world.