Does DRM have a future?

Burnsy2023 · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:51

I know this subject is highly controversial so lets get some ground rules.

Firstly, no unsubstantiated comments. Lets keep this a knowledgeable discussion not a slanging match. Any assertion that isn't an opinion needs a source.
Secondly, no avocation of illegal activities. If you pirate, fine, keep it to yourself. You can voice your opinion but make sure you explain your view with evidence.

So, let's keep this mature and have a good discussion. To start off here is a paper I've written for Uni: www.fuegosoft.co.uk/drm.pdf.

What future do you see for DRM?

JBuk · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:52

wouldn't it be better in Speakers Corner if you want it to be serious?

I don't know enough about DRM to have a formed opinion tbh

Burnsy2023 · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:54

Possibly, but I don't tend to venture into SC, so I doubt a large amount of other people will see it there. We'll see how this goes

Cosimo · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:54

JBuk said:
wouldn't it be better in Speakers Corner if you want it to be serious?

I don't know enough about DRM to have a formed opinion tbh

Burnsy2023 · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:55

If you read the paper, you'll have a much better understanding

Cosimo · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:56

Burnsy2023 said:
If you read the paper, you'll have a much better understanding

Ok, will read in the morning if your linky works.

tom_e · 7 Dec 2008 at 17:59

Your paper link is messed up slightly, just about to read it now to stop me having to do any actual uni work

Burnsy2023 · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:01

blitz2163 said:
Your paper link is messed up slightly, just about to read it now to stop me having to do any actual uni work

Link has been sorted.

titchard · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:02

I find DRM a bit of a tough subject, as I have opinions on both sides of the argument.

I agree with producers of data to want to be able to protect the work that they have spent a lot of time and money creating, but then I do hate the restrictive nature of some of the channels of content out there (iTunes, for example, and some of the highly restrictive gaming DRM from EA).

One of the recent events that I thought was blown out of proportion was the Spore incident - Will Wright's team had worked on that game for years and were obviously going to be a bit protective of it when released into the wild - I do agree that the DRM was slightly possessive but it did have options to get round the DRM if you needed to reinstall again (being able to ring EA for a new key, or however they did it).

Rich

Glaucus · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:07

I think drm has a future but it's sill. It will always be cracked and the only people it infuriates are legitimate users.

I think it will look like Itunes currently is.

DRM enabled files = cheape
DRM free files = more expensive but more popular.

However saying that if the new law comes in which I hope it does. which allows users to copy and change media type for personal use. It could put another dent into the usefulness of DRM.

Has anyone heard anything more on this law?

Mattus · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:07

My opinion is that there's little future for DRM. I think that it's a result of panic amongst content distributors who are living in the pre-internet era, when the consumer readily accepted the concept of music, movies and software as products that were physically purchased. Now, a large proportion of consumers of these products are accustomed to the free transfer of information via the internet; I think the application of restrictions perceived as more limiting than those affecting physical products sets the industry's support for DRM against a growing tide of consumer unrest.

I think the other aspect of the issue is that bypassing DRM is normally so simple for the end user that all it requires is motivation, rather than much technical skill. The motivation to do so is running high, and it's complemented by an open source community which continues to grow in its determination and capability to circumvent DRM schemes and to present tools to do so in a user-friendly manner. For me, it's this combination of the capability and creativity of those who are working to get around DRM measures with a groundswell of motivation on the part of the consumer who truly wants to 'own' non-physical products rather than being limited by what seems to many to be more like a rental scheme, which ensures that DRM is quickly becoming unfeasible. And with DRM-free download services such as iTunes plus and the Amazon service popping up (although these are admittedly limited to downloading music), I think the media empires' hands will soon be forced towards dropping invasive DRM schemes.

Spyhop · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:08

I don't think the music industry has to be logical. We've just regressed quality-wise from CD to lossy encoded downloads.

I'll buy CDs for as long as I can because then I have a master (as far as the consumer is concerned) copy, that I'm free to encode to whatever formats I like, now and in the future.

titchard · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:09

wush said:
I don't think the music industry has to be logical. We've just regressed quality-wise from CD to lossy encoded downloads.

That is true - that's why I only buy CDs, plus the fact you don't really "own" anything with the ITMS.

Rich

Tefal · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:10

it's a business that makes money regardless of effect so of course it has a future (if you want a source go find what secrurerom or what ever thier called profits are)

However games such as oblivion and fallout 3 prove that almost no DRM does not hinder sales whatsoever, and both games have sold more than heavy drm games iirc. (I'm thinking spore etc)

Glaucus · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:11

wush said:
I don't think the music industry has to be logical. We've just regressed quality-wise from CD to lossy encoded downloads.

I'll buy CDs for as long as I can because then I have a master (as far as the consumer is concerned) copy. That I'm free to encode to whatever format I like years down the line.

I doubt it will be long until we see lossless tuff become mainstream. We have the internet speed and memory space. The problem is portable player computability. until we see devices that can play Flac, there wont be providers for it.

Spyhop · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:18

AcidHell2 said:
I doubt it will be long until we see lossless tuff become mainstream. We have the internet speed and memory space. The problem is portable player computability. until we see devices that can play Flac, there wont be providers for it.

Apple had 160GB iPods and their ALAC (Apple Lossless) codec. They never bothered selling it.

For me CDs and FLAC are more about having an unrestricted personal master copy than being able to hear the difference. I use MP3 on my portable.

titchard · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:19

AcidHell2 said:
I doubt it will be long until we see lossless tuff become mainstream. We have the internet speed and memory space. The problem is portable player computability. until we see devices that can play Flac, there wont be providers for it.

True - I also think there is a bit of a mind-trick with it all though, the majority of the population when given a choice between a player that could do 100 lossless tracks and 1000 MP3 tracks will choose the latter.

Whether they will actually listen to that many tracks is probably not going to happen - but the rule of a bigger number = a better product does seem to come into play there.

Rich

titchard · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:20

wush said:
Apple had 160GB iPods and their ALAC (Apple Lossless) codec. They never bothered selling it.

For me CDs and FLAC are more about having an unrestricted personal master copy than being able to hear the difference. I use MP3 on my portable.

Same as me - Lossless on the Mac Pro, and tell it do Transcode to 128KBPS for going onto the shuffle.

Rich

Glaucus · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:20

wush said:
Apple had 160GB iPods and their ALAC (Apple Lossless) codec. They never bothered selling it.

For me CDs and FLAC are more about having an personal master copy than being able to hear the difference. I use MP3 on my portable.

Trouble is it's apple. You need a open source version liek mp3 any manufacture can use.

I think you just hit the nail on the head. Most people who download music use it on there ipods or on a crappy computer system and as such lossless would make no difference to them.

aproctor · 7 Dec 2008 at 18:20

DRM has a place, but many companies that put it in place choose a sloppy, round the houses approach rather than spending time and more importantly money in a system that is simple and is hard to crack.

So far the only effective DRM is the humble serial key.