Does something need to be done about dogs?

[edscdk]

Dog license + review of attacks v breed see if there is any breeds that need banning.. Probably a mandatory hour or 2 training course to get your first dog license

 

[Felon]

Dog license + review of attacks v breed see if there is any breeds that need banning.. Probably a mandatory hour or 2 training course to get your first dog license

Agree with that, I'd say mandatory training for dogs over a certain weight, say 20KG and over.

I'd say mandatory insurance too.

I also got attacked by a yorkshire terrier today, man it was pathetic

 

[mattyfez]

I think taskmaster should be put to sleep, along with his beloved attack dogs.

 

[sidimmu]

"The American Bully breed is, first and foremost, a companion, exhibiting confidence with a zest and exuberance for life. Despite its powerful appearance, their demeanor is gentle and friendly. This breed makes an excellent family dog. The ideal American Bully possesses the athleticism to do well in performance events.
Aggressive behavior towards humans is uncharacteristic of the breed, and highly undesirable.
Disqualifications: Viciousness or extreme shyness"

"fell for the sales pitch, signed off a thick cheque!"

 

[Dis86]

Boy, 3, seriously hurt in Wirral dog attack

The child suffered "significant injuries" after being attacked by a Huntaway Cross dog, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another young child badly injured in the street...everything's fine.

 

[Jelly4mybelly]

Yes, dogs of any given breed may have bloodlines that may make them dangerous, but that only becomes a problem through the actions and inactions of a bad owner/breeder.
There's nothing stopping us 're-speccing' the XLB bloodlines to a more socially responsible temperament. That's what originally happened with Staffies, until back-street breeders stuck their oar in, and in a few generations the XLB could quite easily end up another 'gentle giant' breed like the four Sennenhunds and the St Bernard.

Oh thats okay then. Lets wait a few years whilst we "re-spec" the breed. Any serious injury or deaths in the meantime can be dismissed as collateral damage

 

[ttaskmaster]

This is a load of nonsense, it's just what the American kennel club has cooked up,
It's not even an actual breed, it's a horrid hybrid of all manner of different stuff, so in reality if you buy 3x BXLs from 3x different breeders, you don't know what the hell you're getting.

In order to qualify for a breed standard, there would presumably have been a majority representation of the dog that such a description would be considered typical for that breed.
The question is where all those decent bloodlines went and where all the nastier examples are coming from...

Oh thats okay then. Lets wait a few years whilst we "re-spec" the breed. Any serious injury or deaths in the meantime can be dismissed as collateral damage

There's no need to be ridiculous.
Nothing is stopping you from still seizing dogs bred from unsafe or unverifiable bloodlines, and since you'd mostly be dealing with backstreet breeders and their irresponsible-owner market to achieve this, you'll be taking care of two problems at the same time. You would (or at least should) be doing this as a matter of course if the dogs were banned, anyway, so why not correct the problem?

I think taskmaster should be put to sleep, along with his beloved attack dogs.

No no, go ahead. Put me down. Ban any dog you like.
Burying your head in the sand is a great way to deal with problems - Ask any politician. Another fantastic tactic is to 'strongly condemn' something... That always gets 'em, the rotters!

 

[Felon]

The question is where all those decent bloodlines went and where all the nastier examples are coming from...

It shouldn't be legal for them to come from anywhere, we shouldn't be crossbreeding dogs to create designer monster breeds which are dangerous.

No no, go ahead. Put me down. Ban any dog you like.

I don't think anyone is saying "ban any dog you like" from what I've read, most people are looking at the data - seeing this gigantic spike in attacks from a single solitary dog breed, and saying "Yeah, probably don't need this do we"

 

[ttaskmaster]

It shouldn't be legal for them to come from anywhere, we shouldn't be crossbreeding dogs to create designer monster breeds which are dangerous.

I doubt they were intentionally bred to be monsters in the beginning, as suggested by the 'Pocket' variety - Who would want a 'monster attack dog' that's not even tall enough to bite a target's kneecaps?

I don't think anyone is saying "ban any dog you like" from what I've read, most people are looking at the data - seeing this gigantic spike in attacks from a single solitary dog breed, and saying "Yeah, probably don't need this do we"

Ireland hasn't banned any dogs.
It does restrict a number of breeds*, and that could be a solution here, too, same as they do in Switzerland.


*American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Dobermann Pinscher; Rottweiler; German Shepherd; Rhodesian Ridgeback; Akita and Japanese Tosa.

 

[potatolord]

I doubt they were intentionally bred to be monsters in the beginning, as suggested by the 'Pocket' variety - Who would want a 'monster attack dog' that's not even tall enough to bite a target's kneecaps?


Ireland hasn't banned any dogs.
It does restrict a number of breeds*, and that could be a solution here, too, same as they do in Switzerland.


*American Pit Bull Terrier; English Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier; Bull Mastiff; Dobermann Pinscher; Rottweiler; German Shepherd; Rhodesian Ridgeback; Akita and Japanese Tosa.

The Dangerous Dogs Act doesn't ban any dogs.

It prohibits sale, breeding and importation of named breeds.

 

[Felon]

I doubt they were intentionally bred to be monsters in the beginning, as suggested by the 'Pocket' variety - Who would want a 'monster attack dog' that's not even tall enough to bite a target's kneecaps?

Nah, the first BullyXL traces back to a dog known as "Most Wanted Kimbo" it was traced back in the gene pool: https://bullywatch.link/breed-genetics/

Make your own mind up, as whether it's a monster or not:

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

"The American Bully breed is, first and foremost, a companion, exhibiting confidence with a zest and exuberance for life. Despite its powerful appearance, their demeanor is gentle and friendly. This breed makes an excellent family dog. The ideal American Bully possesses the athleticism to do well in performance events.
Aggressive behavior towards humans is uncharacteristic of the breed, and highly undesirable.
Disqualifications: Viciousness or extreme shyness"

Now let's compare how this statement to the stats of dogs killing people. Spoiler alert most dogs that kill since 2021 are XL Bullies:

List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So the majority of dogs that kill are XL Bully's and most reports of people being mauled are XL Bully's. There probably isn't even that many XL Bully's that are part of the dog population in this country as it's a new breed. So despite there not being that many of them they're vastly outperforming aggressive destructive behaviour towards humans.

 

[ttaskmaster]

The Dangerous Dogs Act doesn't ban any dogs.
It prohibits sale, breeding and importation of named breeds.

That is correct, because it allows for certain individual dogs to be exempted if the owner can show it is not a threat.

Nah, the first BullyXL traces back to a dog known as "Most Wanted Kimbo" it was traced back in the gene pool: https://bullywatch.link/breed-genetics/

The video dates from around 2012, meaning Most Wanted Kimbo was probably born around 2003-2005. The Bully breed had been established long before then.
Bullywatch have traced the lineage of just "some" dogs, and then only the most popular ones. There's nothing about any of the 'less desirable' ones, presumably because those ones are not roided-up killer-looking monstrosities?

Make your own mind up, as whether it's a monster or not:

From just these visuals alone, the whole vid just looks like a bunch of dogs to me. Most look bored and a little bewildered at being dragged around and put on show, instead of being taken out for a walk.
I've seen other breeds that are bigger, others that look scarier, and others that are both.
Of course, I know those of the Kimbo lineage later turned out to have problems, not limited to those resulting from its unbelievably stupid and irresponsible inbreeding by UKC. They're a very good example of very bad breeding, with even other XLB owners campaigning to have the breeders held legally responsible for the results.

"The breed's most distinguishing attribute is its hybrid origin. The American Bully was initially created by crossbreeding the American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier. Over time, additional breeds were incorporated into the mix, including the American Bulldog, French and English Bulldogs, the so-called Olde English Bulldog, and other Molosser breeds. The objective was to develop a dog that was calmer and more adaptable than the American Staffordshire Terrier".

and

"The Bully was bred with the intention of creating a companionable and friendlier variant of a guard dog".
"The American Bully is highly regarded as a companion and family dog, known for its sensitive and highly adaptable nature. Thanks to its gentle disposition, it tends to exhibit friendliness towards its loved ones, children, and even strangers. The breed was intentionally developed to exhibit not only robust health and an impressive appearance but also a calm and economical demeanor".

American Bully: Character & Ownership - Dog Breed Pictures

American Bully breed description with pictures ✓ Character & temperament ✓ Height & weight ✓ Education & care ✓ Price & breeding - dogbible dog magazine

www.dogbible.com

So again, that's what they should be... instead, because people ****** around with the genetics of some bloodlines, we're seemingly only importing lineages we really don't want.

Now let's compare how this statement to the stats of dogs killing people. Spoiler alert most dogs that kill since 2021 are XL Bullies.

But they've been well-established since the 1990s. First kill was in 2021.
That's roughly 26 years, or just 2-3 generations of bad breeding, and presumably with other more breed-standard bloodlines still around. Not too far gone to undo the damage to the breed.

 

[C Kent]

Thanks to its gentle disposition, it tends to exhibit friendliness towards its loved ones, children, and even strangers.

 

[Felon]

So again, that's what they should be... instead, because people ****** around with the genetics of some bloodlines, we're seemingly only importing lineages we really don't want.

I thought this was hilarious, from your link;

The breed's most distinguishing attribute is its hybrid origin. The American Bully was initially created by crossbreeding the American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier. Over time, additional breeds were incorporated into the mix, including the American Bulldog, French and English Bulldogs, the so-called Olde English Bulldog, and other Molosser breeds. The objective was to develop a dog that was calmer and more adaptable than the American Staffordshire Terrier.

Lets just make it up as we go along right, throw some American Bulldogs in there - Engligh bulldogs, who cares? oh it's not big enough either, lets put some Mastiff into it too, utterly mental.

There's nothing in any of your links, and nothing you've said - which as far as I'm concerned makes sense, or supports the idea that these things being alive is in any way sensible.

 

[Dis86]

I think I only have a couple of people on my ignore list.
It's never because I disagree with them or their views. It's only because they post inane drivel or outright top tier ****. Can you guess who one of those people is?

 

[ttaskmaster]

Lets just make it up as we go along right, throw some American Bulldogs in there - Engligh bulldogs, who cares? oh it's not big enough either, lets put some Mastiff into it too, utterly mental.

Welcome to the mentality of irresponsible backstreet breeders.
That's up there with "Let's take a dog breed that's had all the aggression utterly bred out of it over dozens of generations, and its history of being a fighting dog utterly erased from its genetic lineage... but then crossbreed all that back into it, and compound it with the genes of even more viscious dogs - We can make a good few quid off Farcebook".

Why do you think I have no problem with legislating the absolute **** out of breeders, and severely punishing those who do stupid things?

There's nothing in any of your links, and nothing you've said - which as far as I'm concerned makes sense, or supports the idea that these things being alive is in any way sensible.

That's because I've never said that having a roided-up child-killing monster is sensible...

I think I only have a couple of people on my ignore list.
It's never because I disagree with them or their views. It's only because they post inane drivel or outright top tier ****. Can you guess who one of those people is?

Feek?
It's Feek, isn't it?

I was hoping it'd be me as that means you'd never be replying to my posts, but since you already have I guess I'm just not that lucky...

 

[Felon]

Why do you think I have no problem with legislating the absolute **** out of breeders, and severely punishing those who do stupid things?

Because that would still enable a situation where a BullyXL is allowed to be owned, and that's bad - it shouldn't exist, it's an abomination, it's too dangerous - it's not reasonable.

I say this as a lover of large purebreed dogs, I don't want to see dogs get hurt, people hurt or dogs unfairly stigmatised - but these BullyXLs and the people who want them, are giving dogs everywhere a bad name.

No need for them, end of.

 

[Jelly4mybelly]

There's no need to be ridiculous.
Nothing is stopping you from still seizing dogs bred from unsafe or unverifiable bloodlines, and since you'd mostly be dealing with backstreet breeders and their irresponsible-owner market to achieve this, you'll be taking care of two problems at the same time. You would (or at least should) be doing this as a matter of course if the dogs were banned, anyway, so why not correct the problem?

And how is their bloodline to be determined? Random DNA checks whilst they are in the park? Good luck finding willing volunteers to collect that. You are suggesting ideas that require an excessive amount of time and resouces. There really is no need to complicate something that could be very simple.

Blanket ban on the breed from x date in the future. As of next week all dogs of y breed must have a muzzle when they leave the house. Job done.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Because that would still enable a situation where a BullyXL is allowed to be owned, and that's bad - it shouldn't exist, it's an abomination, it's too dangerous - it's not reasonable.

People said the very same about GSDs, Rottweilers, Dobermanns and other such dogs before. The proper approach has seen them become pretty decent dog breeds, without the need to ban them or end their existence.
By contrast, the ban on Pitbulls is what led to us getting a load of XL Bullys in the first place...

I'm inclined to say go ahead and ban the XLBs, just to see what mother ****** of natural perversion takes its place. I imagine all the low-down gangstahs and set trippin' bangers will be down wit' their homies, as they walk their pet Balrog (so don't arouse their anger, fool).

You also haven't actually answered the question.

And how is their bloodline to be determined? Random DNA checks whilst they are in the park?

Firstly - All dogs should already be microchipped by law anyway, so a quick sweep with a hand-held scanner is enough to ID the dog.
The database entry should contain everything an authorised person needs to determine breed, owner, address, etc. Additional requirements can be added for specific breeds (such as breeder details) or individuals on the Exempted list, allowing further in-situ checks.
However, the original name or ID number should already be on the chip, allowing officers to trace the breeder and verify lineage where such details are not immediately available on existing databases.

Any dog without a chip can be seized (usually on suspicion of being stolen or as a stray) and the owner fined (£500) for not complying with microchipping legislation.

Additionally, a dog from a reputable breeder should come with paperwork that certifies its lineage. A small amendment to legislation would then mean any XLB owner who cannot produce this certification (or otherwise verify the safe lineage) loses their dog.
As it stands, that would cover most XLBs in the UK.

You are suggesting ideas that require an excessive amount of time and resouces. There really is no need to complicate something that could be very simple.

Most of the above is already in place. The only extra is the additional powers by which an authorised person (usually Police or dog warden) can seize dogs under certain new conditions.