Does something need to be done about dogs?

[Alice In Wonderland]

Personally, and I speak as a dog owner myself, the law against XL bullies is a bit piecemeal.
I think what really needs to happen is the owner, or the 'dog handler' or 'responsible person' at the time of any attack, should be treated in law as if they had carried out the attack themselves.

So we should be looking at ABH, GBH, or even manslaughter charges (in the case of a death) against the owners, or handlers of dogs that are allowed cause injury to members of the public, in a public space.

I think definitely manslaughter for the owners and a decent stretch behind bars.

I've just skim read on sky news that there has been another attack in Glasgow by 2 suspected bully's.

The woman was injured but not seriously but the chihuahua was killed.

 

[mattyfez]

Another attack

XL bully destroyed after savaging rescue husky while ‘unmuzzled and unleashed’

Owner Simon Warner said his rescue husky Alan was attacked while on a walk in Liverpool city centre

www.independent.co.uk

 

[BUDFORCE]

I've changed my mind. Yes.

Oh, she's a keeper.

 

[GGizmo]

XL bully shot and killed by police after injuring four people in Battersea

Armed officers arrived shortly after 10pm on Monday and "took the difficult decision" to shoot and kill the dog, Met Police say.

news.sky.com

Toddler mauled by family's registered XL bully after trying to climb on dog

The dog sunk its teeth into the toddler's face.

metro.co.uk

It's about time the owners started receiving severe penalties. He shouldn't have been allowed to register the dog while there was a child in the house. What is the point of registering when they aren't asking questions.

Selfish parents.

 

[413x]

Another attack

XL bully destroyed after savaging rescue husky while ‘unmuzzled and unleashed’

Owner Simon Warner said his rescue husky Alan was attacked while on a walk in Liverpool city centre

www.independent.co.uk

My worst fear. As koda would be exactly the same. He'd just be scared.

 

[200sols]

Letting your 3yo climb on a dog is just a recipe for disaster, stupid parents clearly cant handle the child or the dog.

 

[dowie]

Another attack

XL bully destroyed after savaging rescue husky while ‘unmuzzled and unleashed’

Owner Simon Warner said his rescue husky Alan was attacked while on a walk in Liverpool city centre

www.independent.co.uk

Seems like the police were pretty useless initially there and needed to be reminded of how to do their job!

Merseyside Police said the offending dog was seized and officers confirmed it to be an XL bully.

A spokesman added: “With the agreement of its owner, the dog was humanely destroyed.”

Mr Warner, who had been on a trip in Australia at the time, told The Independent flew back to comfort his beloved dog that he rescued as a seven-month-old puppy.

He had been concerned the XL bully was left to roam free in the days after the attack. Police later apologised for not seizing the dog until four days after their first call out.

[...]
“Regrettably, in this case the dog was removed for assessment four days after the initial visit of officers. As a result of this, we will undertake communications to remind all officers attending dog bite incidents of their obligation to carry out the correct procedures.

Also "with the agreement of its owner" - doesn't need the agreement of the owner if it was off lead, not muzzled and attacked...

 

[413x]

XL bully shot and killed by police after injuring four people in Battersea

Armed officers arrived shortly after 10pm on Monday and "took the difficult decision" to shoot and kill the dog, Met Police say.

news.sky.com

Toddler mauled by family's registered XL bully after trying to climb on dog

The dog sunk its teeth into the toddler's face.

metro.co.uk

It's about time the owners started receiving severe penalties. He shouldn't have been allowed to register the dog while there was a child in the house. What is the point of registering when they aren't asking questions.

Selfish parents.

Sounds like bad parenting too.
The kid was climbing in the dog.
A dangerous dog.

This is why xls are dangerous. Any dog could bite in this situation. But an xl is going to do serious damage/death vs just a bite.

 

[a1ex2001]

Sounds like bad parenting too.
The kid was climbing in the dog.
A dangerous dog.

This is why xls are dangerous. Any dog could bite in this situation. But an xl is going to do serious damage/death vs just a bite.

The parents should probably be facing a charge of neglect, I wouldn't leave a toddler alone in a room with that dog and certainly wouldn't let it climb on it! Like you say parents should be incredibly cautious around any dog with a small child but the injuries are likely to be much less severe if you own a pug!

 

[ttaskmaster]

Also "with the agreement of its owner" - doesn't need the agreement of the owner if it was off lead, not muzzled and attacked...

There are many crimes that did not need a guilty plea when being tried, yet it still got reported if the accused did plead guilty....

This is why xls are dangerous. Any dog could bite in this situation. But an xl is going to do serious damage/death vs just a bite.

Most dogs could kill a child in that situation, as seen in the Wiki fatalities list.
This is entirely bad parenting.

 

[dowie]

There are many crimes that did not need a guilty plea when being tried, yet it still got reported if the accused did plead guilty....

The comment was about confiscating and destroying the dog, that's got nothing to do with a guilty plea.

 

[413x]

There are many crimes that did not need a guilty plea when being tried, yet it still got reported if the accused did plead guilty....


Most dogs could kill a child in that situation, as seen in the Wiki fatalities list.
This is entirely bad parenting.

It is bad parenting. And probably bad dog Ownership too.
But many dogs don't have that aggression in them.

Really. By having an xl you're just increasing the chance of issues.

There's always a chance. But adding the traits of a xl just adds to the odds of serious injury/death.

 

[ttaskmaster]

The comment was about confiscating and destroying the dog, that's got nothing to do with a guilty plea.

No, it was about disregarding the owner's admission of culpability. You're dealing with humans now, not statistics. It matters.
Furthermore, the dog was likely siezed from a private residence, in which case the Police would actually need either a warrant or the owner to voluntarily surrender the dog, which is what seemingly happened in this instance.

But many dogs don't have that aggression in them.
Really. By having an xl you're just increasing the chance of issues.
There's always a chance. But adding the traits of a xl just adds to the odds of serious injury/death.

Depending on circumstances, a lot of them do. It comes down to the particulars of what the kid does to the dog and how badly it hurts, or how serious a threat the dog thinks it's under. A tug on the dog's ear while clambering on it would not elicit the same response as slipping off and stamping down on the dog's stifle or hock.
An adult doing that is more likely to scare the dog, but a small human appears as a threat the dog can actually tackle instead.

 

[sidimmu]

Classic ttaskmaster, everything else at fault apart from a dog breed with horrendous statistics on violence.

A tug on the dog's ear while clambering on it would not elicit the same response as slipping off and stamping down on the dog's stifle or hock.

Think you live in an ideal world of dogs without the understanding of reality.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Classic ttaskmaster, everything else at fault apart from a dog breed with horrendous statistics on violence.

So if I kick you in the nuts, it's your fault if you get upset about it and react....??!!
Good to know....

Think you live in an ideal world of dogs without the understanding of reality.

I dunno where you live, but in my world we treat them like dogs and don't expect them to behave like responsible adult humans. Maybe that's why you're so shocked when abused dogs act so badly in response....

 

[Abraxaz1]

Letting your 3yo climb on a dog is just a recipe for disaster, stupid parents clearly cant handle the child or the dog.

depends on the breed and more importantly the training and relationship the dog has with the child.

My lab has had my daughter and friends kids climb all over him. All under my observation. (Normally he runs up to them, dives to the floor at their feet and shows his belly)

He knows his place in the hierarchy, and that’s the problem people raising dogs like children not realising that dogs are a pack animal and don’t understand subtle signs and orders.

When he was a puppy and would nip, if he tried nipping the kids he got a proper telling put on his back and held there, oddly he has never bit or gone for any child.

 

[dowie]

No, it was about disregarding the owner's admission of culpability.

What admission of culpability?

You're dealing with humans now, not statistics. It matters.
Furthermore, the dog was likely siezed from a private residence, in which case the Police would actually need either a warrant or the owner to voluntarily surrender the dog, which is what seemingly happened in this instance.

So as I said; they don't need the permission of the owner and they should have confiscated it at the time of the incident (which they've already admitted was their mistake).

 

[ttaskmaster]

What admission of culpability?

Destruction of dog under dangerous dogs act. Owner voluntarily giving up the dog under such act is an admission of being responsible for a dangerous dog.

So as I said; they don't need the permission of the owner and they should have confiscated it at the time of the incident (which they've already admitted was their mistake).

So as the law says, they do need the owner's permission if it's on private property and they don't have a warrant, which they wouldn't have had at the time of the incident...

 

[sidimmu]

So if I kick you in the nuts, it's your fault if you get upset about it and react....??!!

If you and your family had been shown to do it time and time again, I am down for you and your "breed" to be exterminated.

I dunno where you live, but in my world we treat them like dogs and don't expect them to behave like responsible adult humans. Maybe that's why you're so shocked when abused dogs act so badly in response....

You live in a world where you believe everything can be fixed by educating scum.
I live in a world where I see scum not taking in anyone's lessons, so I work in the reality where such "action" would result in absolutely nothing being achieved.

 

[dowie]

So as the law says, they do need the owner's permission if it's on private property and they don't have a warrant, which they wouldn't have had at the time of the incident...

It clearly wasn't on the owners property at the time of the incident and they can get a warrant so no; they don't need the owners permission and they should have seized it sooner - that's a mistake that they have admitted to in the statement in the article you clearly didn't read!