Does something need to be done about illegal/unlicenced/uninsured electric vehicles on our roads (and pavements)

silvagti

silvagti

silvagti

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Just wandering what everyone's thoughts are as I'm personally feeling like there's a pandemic of idiots riding electric unlicenced and not road legal electric vehicles (ebikes, escooters, etc) on our roads and pavements. We've all seen the recent headlines about the negative consequences when police try to chase down people on them who are flagrantly breaking the law. Most of the time as far as I can see the police aren't interesting in doing anything about it though.

Just wondering what folk think the solution is as it's feeling like an ever growing problem as electric vehicles like ebikes/escooters become cheaper and more readily available. Is some kind of licencing going to be required as they become more ubiquitus or do the police need to start taking firmer action?

My main thought is the the introduction of the law allowing 15mph, pedal assisted bicycles has opened up a legal grey area where you can seemingly ride any kind of electric moped/motorbike on the road now without insurance/licencing/etc so long as it has pedals fitted as a token gesture. To me that needs to be rolled back as it's resulting in what are clearly motorbikes/mopeds being classified as bicycles. Not to mention most of these seem to be fitted with throttles (which aren't legal) and motors that are clearly capable of exceeding 30mph never mind 15mph!
 
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If the police try, and the rider fails to stop and dies/seriously injured, the media and a percentage of public blame the police. Can hardly blame the police for turning a blind eye.

The government needs to set out some new legislation and keep up with technology.
 
Fubsy said:
Licensing will stop them :cry:
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No it wouldn't. Still plenty of people doing a CBT to ride mopeds.

They should be legalised, up to 15 mph should be unrestricted; I could go that fast on a kick scooter and a fair bit quicker on a bike. How it's being powered is largely irrelevant to safety.

Over 15mph should require something similar to a CBT, insurance, lights, helmet etc.
 
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adidan said:
Enforce current laws, but that would take upping the police numbers.
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I think the main issue preventing the enforecement of current laws is that looking at most of these electric bicycles there's no way to visiblty spot at distance whether an ebike is a road legal pedal assisted model or an illegal, throtle driven 30 mph+ electric motorbike. Short of the police seeing someone driving along at high speed uphill they'll never be in a position to aprehend anyone riding an illegal ebike. Plus I'm sure recent media headlines will have put police off the idea of giving chase to anyone who doesn't stop for them!

Having said that given the number of folk riding escooters on pavements/roads the police don't seem interested in stopping even those who are visibly breaking the law given those escooters aren't road (or pavement!) legal.
 
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Rai200 said:
Well yeah, a CBT is for the road. That's what I said.
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I'm personally starting to feel we need to roll back the laws on 15mph pedal assisted electic bicycles (which have created this issue IMO) and require that any kind of motorised electric vehicle should be licenced in some form? Otherwise I can't see any way to tackle the issue of getting the illegal ebikes off our roads whilst they blend in alongside the legal ones?
 
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silvagti said:
I'm personally starting to feel we need to roll back the laws on pedal assisted bicycles and require that any kind of motorised electric vehicle should be licenced in some form?
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Why?

Why does it matter if it's powered by someones legs or by an electric motor if the speed is limited to below what you could do anyway?

I'd argue that they're safer, ever seen a cyclist going up a hill? Head down, weaving a bit from pedalling and definitely not paying as much attention to the road as they could be.
 
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Rai200 said:
Why?

Why does it matter if it's powered by someones legs or by an electric motor if the speed is limited to below what you could do anyway?
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Because if someone fits an electric motor to an unlicensed vehile you're no way to regulate how powerful it is or enfore any kind of safety standards/etc. Plus it leaves the police with no way to spot vehicles which aren't road legal.
 
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silvagti said:
Because if someone fits an electric motor to an unlicensed vehile you're no way to regulate how powerful it is or enfore any kind of safety standards/etc. Plus it leaves the police with no way to spot vehicles which aren't road legal.
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So should we get rid of the CBT entirely?

There's no way to tell if a moped has a 50cc motor or a 300cc motor, which would require a full bike license.
 
Rai200 said:
So should we get rid of the CBT entirely?

There's no way to tell if a moped has a 50cc motor or a 300cc motor, which would require a full bike license.
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No, if anything we should extend CBT to electric bikes/vehicles as you suggested.

Currently a 50cc moped requires plates, road tax, insurance and provisional licence to ride on the road IIRC. Maybe electric bikes should be treated the same way regardless of their power output?
 
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silvagti said:
No, if anything we should extend CBT to electric vehicles. Even a 50cc moped requires plates, road tax, insurance and provisional licence to ride on the road. Maybe electric bikes should be treated the same way regardless of their power output?
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A 50cc moped will do 30mph, a normal road bike with a competent rider will do 25mph. I did say that anything that does over 15 should have similar requirements. And that still doesn't change the fact that a moped could easily be more than 50cc.

It just seems to me like you want to make access to PEVs more dificult because you personally don't like them.
 
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Rai200 said:
It just seems to me like you want to make access to PEVs more dificult because you personally don't like them.
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This issue I have is that many of these ebikes on our roads clearly aren't road legal (not to mention escooters which are all illegal) and there seems to be a huge grey area which is being exploited by those driving around without any consideration for the safety of themselves or others.
 
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silvagti said:
This issue I have is that many of these ebikes on our roads clearly aren't road legal (not to mention escooters which are all illegal) and there seems to be a huge grey area which is being exploited by those driving around without any consideration for the safety of themselves or others.
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It’s not a grey area and as you say it is pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense which ones are most likely illegal. The issue as with so many things in this country at the minute is with enforcement, if the police were sufficiently manned to enforce the law and the punishment for riding any illegal electric vehicle on the road was it’s permanent confiscation then you would see a dramatic drop in them. The Police are not interested and not staffed to uphold the law and that is what needs to be fixed.

There also needs to be a significant investment in education around these things and an end to the media culture of blaming the police every time they try to stop someone on one and they get hurt.
 
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It's a bit of a grey area, and hear me out, because private escooters are not legal, BUT, rented ones are. Which feels like a big double standard. While rented gear can at least be better regulated and more easily policed, I can see how it makes it harder to spot at a distance whether someone is on a privately owned or rented E scooter.

Bikes, well... They should be on the road, that's a given, but frankly I don't care if they are doing 30 on the road as long as they use it properly.

I'd be all for electric motorcycles tbh, but that would obviously need to be treated as a motorcycle. Where's the line, of course, being the question. I'd say it's power output rather than top speed, since you could at least differentiate between a person with strong legs vs a motor that way. The legislation then needs to fall to the vendors to restrict the access to regulated vehicles imo (eg you buy a car you need to show a license, same with a powerful E bike).

My 2p anyway. Not been inconvenienced with them myself tbh, just the occasional scooter on the pavement that I disagree with.

PS, I think that electric personal transport should be encouraged rather than people driving to work. We just need to do a better job of making it work. Save the planet and all that.
 
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Fubsy said:
Licensing will stop them :cry:
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Don't be stupid....

BAN them first, then licence them. Not all of them, of course, just those of two-wheel type as they're clearly an outlier in the stats and usually owned by a certain type of person.
Every manufacturer and seller must have a licence to produce/sell, and every rider must have a licence to own.
Fear of this will kill demand for them.
 
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