Does something need to be done about illegal/unlicenced/uninsured electric vehicles on our roads (and pavements)

I don't think it is a major issue but there is certainly some problems there. It isn't just electric vehicles though - the last few days (often happens when the weather is nice) there are a bunch of people of all ages from about 12 to 30+ riding around on petrol dirt bikes around some parts of the town I work in - often no helmets, probably no license or insurance, etc. riding the wrong way down roads, on pavements, off-road and generally causing chaos.
 
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This has entirely fallen to the general public to follow the law, which they are informed about every time they buy an escooter or ebike or ebike kit off the internet or street.

The vendors very carefully state that the gear is illegal to use on public roads and can only be used on private land.

Enforcement is an absolute joke so people have been buying them and using them as garbage electric motorbikes without a licence.

If the government gave a single toss the enforcement should be lumped square on the seller as the responsible person to verify that the buyer has a licence or access to private land they have permission for.

Very obviously the police are not going to invest time chasing billy riding an escooter round the estate. But many enforcements of law are put on the people looking to make money out of it. You want to sell this stuff? You make sure its legal.
 
silvagti said:
Just wandering what everyone's thoughts are as I'm personally feeling like there's a pandemic of idiots riding electric unlicenced and not road legal electric vehicles (ebikes, escooters, etc) on our roads and pavements. We've all seen the recent headlines about the negative consequences when police try to chase down people on them who are flagrantly breaking the law. Most of the time as far as I can see the police aren't interesting in doing anything about it though.

Just wondering what folk think the solution is as it's feeling like an ever growing problem as electric vehicles like ebikes/escooters become cheaper and more readily available. Is some kind of licencing going to be required as they become more ubiquitus or do the police need to start taking firmer action?

My main thought is the the introduction of the law allowing 15mph, pedal assisted bicycles has opened up a legal grey area where you can seemingly ride any kind of electric moped/motorbike on the road now without insurance/licencing/etc so long as it has pedals fitted as a token gesture. To me that needs to be rolled back as it's resulting in what are clearly motorbikes/mopeds being classified as bicycles. Not to mention most of these seem to be fitted with throttles (which aren't legal) and motors that are clearly capable of exceeding 30mph never mind 15mph!
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Ah great, another thinly veiled attack on cyclists!

* How do you know an e-bike is not road legal when you see it in passing? I'm guessing you aren't trying to stop them for a full inspection...?
* What's an "unlicensed e-bike?" You've never needed a license in the first place!
* What is the "problem" of e-bikes becoming more widespread, as you see it?
* Yes, AFAIK you can ride any bike or e-bike obeying the 15mph restriction on any road except a motorway. That's a problem because...?

And finally, what are we going to do about the problem of idiot car, van and lorry drivers, eh? There's plenty more of them on the roads than people riding e-bikes, by several orders of magnitude.
 
silvagti said:
We've all seen the recent headlines about the negative consequences when police try to chase down people on them who are flagrantly breaking the law.
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Have we? The police we're not chasing any of the recent recipients of the Darwin Award. I may be mistaken, so can you provide links to these stories about police chases that you're alluding to?
 
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Rai200 said:
A 50cc moped will do 30mph, a normal road bike with a competent rider will do 25mph. I did say that anything that does over 15 should have similar requirements. And that still doesn't change the fact that a moped could easily be more than 50cc.

It just seems to me like you want to make access to PEVs more dificult because you personally don't like them.
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That's exactly what it is. Plenty of OcUK have a permanent grump on that cyclists "don't pay road tax" and don't need insurance, etc.

The end goal of this group is to get cyclists off the road entirely.
 
Devrij said:
It's a bit of a grey area, and hear me out, because private escooters are not legal, BUT, rented ones are. Which feels like a big double standard. While rented gear can at least be better regulated and more easily policed, I can see how it makes it harder to spot at a distance whether someone is on a privately owned or rented E scooter.

Bikes, well... They should be on the road, that's a given, but frankly I don't care if they are doing 30 on the road as long as they use it properly.

I'd be all for electric motorcycles tbh, but that would obviously need to be treated as a motorcycle. Where's the line, of course, being the question. I'd say it's power output rather than top speed, since you could at least differentiate between a person with strong legs vs a motor that way. The legislation then needs to fall to the vendors to restrict the access to regulated vehicles imo (eg you buy a car you need to show a license, same with a powerful E bike).

My 2p anyway. Not been inconvenienced with them myself tbh, just the occasional scooter on the pavement that I disagree with.

PS, I think that electric personal transport should be encouraged rather than people driving to work. We just need to do a better job of making it work. Save the planet and all that.
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Why power output and not top speed?

The difference between a 250W (anaemic) PEV regulated to 15mph and a 750W PEV regulated to 15mph, is that the latter can still do 15mph uphill, whereas the 250W is dying on its ass.

Thankfully, the current law allows you to exceed 250W in short burst events (and defined one such event as going up a hill). 250W is just the max sustained output. So in theory a 750W motor is perfectly road legal if speed restricted (IANAL!!)
 
FoxEye said:
And finally, what are we going to do about the problem of idiot car, van and lorry drivers, eh? There's plenty more of them on the roads than people riding e-bikes, by several orders of magnitude.
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In this country alone 1000s of people will be maimed or killed by motorists today flouting the law but see a kid on an electric scooter or adult on a bike/eBike doing something naughty and motorists lose their crap over it.
When electric scooters/bikes/eBikes do something naughty they virtually always hurt themselves where motorists virtually always hurt others.
I can go out now on a motoring commute and witness 100s of illegal things by motorists but see a cyclist slowly manouevre through a red light and the world falls in for the average motorist, it doesn't matter about the 3 cars that went through red just before the bike.
 
it's a tough 1 i see both sides of the argument. e-bikes/scooters can often do 30mph which is the same as a 50cc moped which requires a cbt, insurance, tax, mot, helmet to be worn. come off or hit anyone at 30mph and it's gonna injure or even kill. on the other side they are a planet friendly cheap fun mode of transport, i can see myself maybe buying an e-bike in the future so personally i would tend to go against legislation and/or enforcing current law more rigorously.
 
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On a side note, some people in mobility scooters have never drove a car and it shows. About 6 years ago, I was helping out on produce. Put out some bananas and an elderly lady drove into the back of my legs. Never apologised. Had bruises on front and back of legs.

Then there was a man driving max speed 8mph missing the corner colliding into the wine. He broke about 50 bottles. Do we drive at max when we are going around a corner in our cars? No!

Then some mobility scooters users don’t understand that can’t ride on roads. All of a sudden driving along a road driving a few mph. Cause? Old dear on mobility scooter riding on the road.
 
Last year I was at a different supermarket. A kid aged 8 was riding his E scooter in the store. Security guard asked his mum to get him off the scooter.

The stupid mum screamed (be weary of young mums with hair in b***h buns) “my son has rights to ride where he wants” Erm, he doesn’t.
 
FoxEye said:
Why power output and not top speed?

The difference between a 250W (anaemic) PEV regulated to 15mph and a 750W PEV regulated to 15mph, is that the latter can still do 15mph uphill, whereas the 250W is dying on its ass.

Thankfully, the current law allows you to exceed 250W in short burst events (and defined one such event as going up a hill). 250W is just the max sustained output. So in theory a 750W motor is perfectly road legal if speed restricted (IANAL!!)
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Primarily to get around illegal modifications, but yes perhaps peak output is not the same as constant output
 
Not really part of this thread but is about speed and eBikes.
I was having a meal with a bloke yesterday who was moaning about his eBike and how he can only do 15.5mph.
It took a couple of minutes to understand that no matter where he is eg downhill, his bike will only do 15.5mph, I was explaining that I regularly hit over 30mph even though my motor cut off at 15.5mph.
I didn't realise some eBikes did this so I'm going to help him convert one with the parts I use.
 
On the subject of mobility scooters they are more of a problem around where i live than e-bikes/scooters imo. they are often on the road doing 5 mph and taking up a lot of the road as they are quite a bit wider than bikes etc.
 
throwaway4372 said:
This question is a difficult one for a forum, because we're from all over the country, this barely registers as a problem in my town, but I've heard it's a much bigger issue in London.
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This is true, in Stoke I will very rarely see a normal cycle and seeing an eBike is very rare, also the same with eScooters.
I went to Cambridge and it was like a swarm of eScooters doing anything they wanted.
In Glasgow two weeks ago I didn't see one eBike Delivery guy with a bike that went more than 15.5mph but in London I was seeing ridiculous speeds.
 
FoxEye said:
Ah great, another thinly veiled attack on cyclists!
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I’m not suggesting we target cyclists or bicycles. I’m suggesting there should be licensing and enforcement of electric “motorised” vehicles in the same way there currently is with petrol “motorised” vehicles (motorbikes/mopeds/etc).

Treating electric motorised vehicles as though they were bicycles is the problem IMO.
 
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Never knowingly seen one round here. Plenty of "Cycle Events" which a few years ago were signed "Cycle Race", so some semantics there have changed. Very few people on normal bicycles going to and from work.

Pieces of trivia. I can drive from my house into Greater Manchester over 50 miles away and encounter only 3 sets of traffic lights and one vandalised fixed speed camera. I still inwardly curse if a light's on red.

I can drive on the main road into Whitchurch eight miles away and go through no traffic lights, same into Shrewsbury 17 miles away.

I used to live EXACTLY 25 miles north from Oulton Park, door to entrance gates. I now live EXACTLY 25 miles south of Oulton Park, door to entrance gates. Amazing.... And yet to encounter an electric bike or scooter.

Use the information wisely ;)
 
silvagti said:
To me that needs to be rolled back as it's resulting in what are clearly motorbikes/mopeds being classified as bicycles.
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The reason they were allowed in the first place was to enable elderly and disabled people to get the health benefits of cycling. They are a lifeline against car dependency and shouldn't be rolled back, but encouraged with better infrastructure and possibly even tax benefits (particularly for more expensive cargo bikes).

I think legalising escooters (max speed of 15mph) will further normalise the use of lighter mobility options other then cars and make the implementation of cycle lanes more politically popular.


Illegal emotorbikes should be crushed by the police. Parents who buy them for their children should also be prosecuted (i.e. what happened in Ely...).
 
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