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Dolby Atmos For Headphones

Discussion in 'Sound City' started by Zhuni, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. rids57

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 25, 2012

    Posts: 5,547

    Location: Ankh Morpork

    Ok, so where is the positional audio information coming from? It's not in the stereo because if it was, there would be no point in anyone getting a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system, you'd get full surround from a pair of speakers - which you obviously don't.

    I've given your demo multiple listens now and I hear very little depth information (only what you get in a normal stereo stream), it's all still just stereo as far as I can make out. Certain effects, like the ball moving across the sound stage stand out more with Atmos but it is still just moving from side to side, there is no change in back to front or up and down.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  2. shankly1985

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2011

    Posts: 16,281

    Location: The KOP

    Its all down to trickery, the same way you can infact get surround sound from sound bars they just have speakers in front of you.

    Do you notice any difference in that clip in my last post?


    Dolby Pro Logic ll Benefits
    • Stereo to Surround
      Dolby® Pro Logic® II uses hidden audio cues that already exist in stereo content to create realistic surround sound with five full-range channels: Left, Right, Center, Left Surround, and Right Surround.
    Sound All Around You
    Your movie collection features a host of two-channel (stereo) classics. Most of your music is in stereo, too, and the same holds true for your video games. They sound perfectly acceptable, but they would definitely sound better in surround.

    Dolby Pro Logic II makes this possible, converting high-quality stereo content into compelling 5.1-channel surround sound.

    With Dolby Pro Logic II technology in your home theater, you're no longer limited to the binary left-right world of stereo. Dolby Pro Logic II takes the audio for almost any TV show, movie, game, or music album and wraps it around you. The audio comes to life.

    https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-pro-logic-ii.html
     
  3. p4radox

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 1, 2004

    Posts: 10,743

    Location: Prague

    For anyone interested in the kind of positional audio that can be achieved with only 2 drivers, try this with stereo headphones:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

    There's even a section at around 2:50 where the sound appears to go over the top of the head.

    I remain convinced that in theory it should be possible to create true surround with only 2 drivers. It's probably easier with 7 or 9 speakers or whatever, but it should be possible to reverse engineer whatever algorithm your brain uses to produce a sensation of surround sound from only 2 sensors.
     
  4. james.miller

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 17, 2003

    Posts: 15,930

    Location: Woburn Sand Dunes

    Me, just a dac and a pair of hd650s.

    Sure it is, binarual recording is very convincing (dont know if thats who your youtube vid is, it's blocked at work) and that's just recorded using two mics inside a dummy head, the idea being you record everything including what the head and the ear canals do to the soundwaves hitting the mics as that's what gives you the positional queues. The problem is how many games support binaural stereo output or some equivalent of it? Most games either layer the surround channels on top of the fronts or just process everything in stereo to begin with and throw away any surround information. How then can atmos produce realistic depth when there isnt any to begin with?

    I want to give it a go yesterday but didnt have any time. I did install the demo though. Will get to it when i can.

    Pro logic two was very hit and miss without content that wasnt specifically encoded for it. Most of the time when i have to choose between stereo and prologic on my av amp i choose stereo as it ruins music and doesnt do a very good job of steering speech to the center channel if the audio wanst already encoded:

     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  5. james.miller

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 17, 2003

    Posts: 15,930

    Location: Woburn Sand Dunes

    So, I tried dolby atmos last night. Didnt have long so i've only given one game a shot. I tried Atmos with Doom 2016 and it did nothing. There's 0 difference between standing directly infront of an object making noise (ammo, armour etc), facing it or facing away from it. There's no depth there at all, cant tell if something if behind me or infront of me.

    I thought maybe atmos wasnt working but it works on the demo clips in the Atmos app OK so it's not that. Even the clips were unimpressive though, they sound odd as hell without atmos processing then something like a slightly wider than normal stereo with it switched on. Meh. I'm not writing it off just yet, i'll play some more first, but so far it's pretty much doing what i expected.
     
  6. Coolasmoo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 4,188

    Location: Mars

    I am sure it only works with Atmos enabled games.
     
  7. pooley

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 11, 2010

    Posts: 2,646

    Location: In the dwelling

    like to try this but what is this Insider Program nonsense i need to dl it?
     
  8. Absorbentsolid

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 1, 2012

    Posts: 1,019

    Location: Stoke-On-Trent

    If i aren't mistaken Star Wars Battlefront is a dolby atmos game.
     
  9. Coolasmoo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 4,188

    Location: Mars

    It is however through HDMI to your amp
     
  10. Greebo

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005

    Posts: 27,671

    Location: Co Durham

    Interesting product but after reading reviews it seems they nailed the DAC but forgot to put a decent amplifier inside and wont work with highish impedance cans :(

    I presume I could just feed my sound through the GSX1000 and then connect to a proper headphone amp?
     
  11. Rroff

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 48,501

    In theory should work fine as its only a 1 VRMS signal output but some people have reported mixed results - also a risk that some amplifiers won't preserve the sound reproduction as well as others.
     
  12. mrk

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 81,393

    Location: South Coast

    I saw it in Windows sound settings yesterday, I raised an eyebrow, clicked it and it loaded up in the Store.

    Raised the other eyebrow and closed the lot down.

    Nope.

    Not gonna dirty my 650s with simulated sounds when the 7050 does a superb job of rich bass when the source media needs it.
     
  13. Uriel

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 15, 2006

    Posts: 7,573

    Atmos gives sounds XYZ co-ordinates instead of a speaker mix. That's reproduced over whatever speaker or headphone setup you have.

    Over headphones though, if the HRTF doesn't suit you, you won't hear it as intended with headphones. I do - although rear is more obvious than front to me.
     
  14. rids57

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 25, 2012

    Posts: 5,547

    Location: Ankh Morpork

    I think I was missing the point that the spatial data is present in the encoding - I was assuming that it was just a simple stereo signal that was being used and ATMOS was somehow creating it on the fly.

    The video and post by shankly states...

    so no mention of being ATMOS encoded but in order to work properly, I assume that it must be.
     
  15. Uriel

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jan 15, 2006

    Posts: 7,573

    I think it's an atmos video that's been converted for stereo headphone listening with both atmos (native XYZ Atmos to stereo headphone) and GSX (XYZ to 7.1 speaker mix virtualised over stereo headphones). For stereo speakers you would need a different virtualisation algorithm.

    It's pre-processed so contains no atmos encoding.
     
  16. rids57

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 25, 2012

    Posts: 5,547

    Location: Ankh Morpork

    I think I'm finally getting it now :D
     
  17. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 21,700

    Location: Rutland

    Just trying this now on stereo audio and it seems ok. Not sure I'd pay for it.
     
  18. kedge

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 5, 2010

    Posts: 3,370

    I have never been impressed with any claimed headphone surround, it's either way too much reverb in a stereo field or just sounds no different to stereo.
     
  19. Zhuni

    Hitman

    Joined: Jun 16, 2011

    Posts: 544

    There's something odd going on with DAFH. I've just plugged my headphones directly in to my pc mother board out and Atmos is sounding far better positioning wise and spatially, need to investigate. Its like its only half working out of my Dac amp.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  20. Rroff

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 48,501

    Some amps can distort the surround cues for instance if they have aluminium electrolytic capacitors in the audio signal path this seems to significantly reduce imaging in a lot of cases and likewise the specific use of other components.
     


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