Dolby Atmos For Headphones

rids57 · 19 Apr 2017 at 04:54

Ok, so where is the positional audio information coming from? It's not in the stereo because if it was, there would be no point in anyone getting a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system, you'd get full surround from a pair of speakers - which you obviously don't.

I've given your demo multiple listens now and I hear very little depth information (only what you get in a normal stereo stream), it's all still just stereo as far as I can make out. Certain effects, like the ball moving across the sound stage stand out more with Atmos but it is still just moving from side to side, there is no change in back to front or up and down.

shankly1985 · 19 Apr 2017 at 05:02

rids57 said:
Ok, so where is the positional audio information coming from? It's not in the stereo because if it was, there would be no point in anyone getting a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system, you'd get full surround from a pair of speakers - which you obviously don't.

Its all down to trickery, the same way you can infact get surround sound from sound bars they just have speakers in front of you.

Do you notice any difference in that clip in my last post?

Dolby Pro Logic ll Benefits

Stereo to Surround
Dolby® Pro Logic® II uses hidden audio cues that already exist in stereo content to create realistic surround sound with five full-range channels: Left, Right, Center, Left Surround, and Right Surround.

Sound All Around You
Your movie collection features a host of two-channel (stereo) classics. Most of your music is in stereo, too, and the same holds true for your video games. They sound perfectly acceptable, but they would definitely sound better in surround.

Dolby Pro Logic II makes this possible, converting high-quality stereo content into compelling 5.1-channel surround sound.

With Dolby Pro Logic II technology in your home theater, you're no longer limited to the binary left-right world of stereo. Dolby Pro Logic II takes the audio for almost any TV show, movie, game, or music album and wraps it around you. The audio comes to life.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-pro-logic-ii.html

p4radox · 19 Apr 2017 at 08:25

For anyone interested in the kind of positional audio that can be achieved with only 2 drivers, try this with stereo headphones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

There's even a section at around 2:50 where the sound appears to go over the top of the head.

I remain convinced that in theory it should be possible to create true surround with only 2 drivers. It's probably easier with 7 or 9 speakers or whatever, but it should be possible to reverse engineer whatever algorithm your brain uses to produce a sensation of surround sound from only 2 sensors.

james.miller · 19 Apr 2017 at 09:46

shankly1985 said:
What you using for hardware?

Me, just a dac and a pair of hd650s.

P4radox said:
I remain convinced that in theory it should be possible to create true surround with only 2 drivers. It's probably easier with 7 or 9 speakers or whatever, but it should be possible to reverse engineer whatever algorithm your brain uses to produce a sensation of surround sound from only 2 sensors.

Sure it is, binarual recording is very convincing (dont know if thats who your youtube vid is, it's blocked at work) and that's just recorded using two mics inside a dummy head, the idea being you record everything including what the head and the ear canals do to the soundwaves hitting the mics as that's what gives you the positional queues. The problem is how many games support binaural stereo output or some equivalent of it? Most games either layer the surround channels on top of the fronts or just process everything in stereo to begin with and throw away any surround information. How then can atmos produce realistic depth when there isnt any to begin with?

I want to give it a go yesterday but didnt have any time. I did install the demo though. Will get to it when i can.

shankly said:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-pro-logic-ii.html

Pro logic two was very hit and miss without content that wasnt specifically encoded for it. Most of the time when i have to choose between stereo and prologic on my av amp i choose stereo as it ruins music and doesnt do a very good job of steering speech to the center channel if the audio wanst already encoded:

When broadcasters encode their stereo signals specifically for Dolby Pro Logic II playback, it allows them to deliver surround and localization effects over stereo services that are more like discrete 5.1 transmissions—without compromising regular stereo and mono playback.

james.miller · 20 Apr 2017 at 07:21

So, I tried dolby atmos last night. Didnt have long so i've only given one game a shot. I tried Atmos with Doom 2016 and it did nothing. There's 0 difference between standing directly infront of an object making noise (ammo, armour etc), facing it or facing away from it. There's no depth there at all, cant tell if something if behind me or infront of me.

I thought maybe atmos wasnt working but it works on the demo clips in the Atmos app OK so it's not that. Even the clips were unimpressive though, they sound odd as hell without atmos processing then something like a slightly wider than normal stereo with it switched on. Meh. I'm not writing it off just yet, i'll play some more first, but so far it's pretty much doing what i expected.

Coolasmoo · 20 Apr 2017 at 18:48

I am sure it only works with Atmos enabled games.

pooley · 21 Apr 2017 at 11:39

like to try this but what is this Insider Program nonsense i need to dl it?

Absorbentsolid · 21 Apr 2017 at 14:10

If i aren't mistaken Star Wars Battlefront is a dolby atmos game.

Coolasmoo · 21 Apr 2017 at 19:03

Absorbentsolid said:
If i aren't mistaken Star Wars Battlefront is a dolby atmos game.

It is however through HDMI to your amp

Greebo · 24 Apr 2017 at 10:53

Interesting product but after reading reviews it seems they nailed the DAC but forgot to put a decent amplifier inside and wont work with highish impedance cans

I presume I could just feed my sound through the GSX1000 and then connect to a proper headphone amp?

Rroff · 24 Apr 2017 at 10:56

Greebo said:
I presume I could just feed my sound through the GSX1000 and then connect to a proper headphone amp?

In theory should work fine as its only a 1 VRMS signal output but some people have reported mixed results - also a risk that some amplifiers won't preserve the sound reproduction as well as others.

mrk · 24 Apr 2017 at 22:40

I saw it in Windows sound settings yesterday, I raised an eyebrow, clicked it and it loaded up in the Store.

Raised the other eyebrow and closed the lot down.

Nope.

Not gonna dirty my 650s with simulated sounds when the 7050 does a superb job of rich bass when the source media needs it.

Uriel · 24 Apr 2017 at 23:04

rids57 said:
Ok, so where is the positional audio information coming from? It's not in the stereo because if it was, there would be no point in anyone getting a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system, you'd get full surround from a pair of speakers - which you obviously don't.

I've given your demo multiple listens now and I hear very little depth information (only what you get in a normal stereo stream), it's all still just stereo as far as I can make out. Certain effects, like the ball moving across the sound stage stand out more with Atmos but it is still just moving from side to side, there is no change in back to front or up and down.

Atmos gives sounds XYZ co-ordinates instead of a speaker mix. That's reproduced over whatever speaker or headphone setup you have.

Over headphones though, if the HRTF doesn't suit you, you won't hear it as intended with headphones. I do - although rear is more obvious than front to me.

rids57 · 25 Apr 2017 at 05:25

I think I was missing the point that the spatial data is present in the encoding - I was assuming that it was just a simple stereo signal that was being used and ATMOS was somehow creating it on the fly.

The video and post by shankly states...

This Video sample is "Stereo ONLY" so the GSX is taking a two channel stream and creating a virtual surround sound

so no mention of being ATMOS encoded but in order to work properly, I assume that it must be.

Uriel · 25 Apr 2017 at 18:27

I think it's an atmos video that's been converted for stereo headphone listening with both atmos (native XYZ Atmos to stereo headphone) and GSX (XYZ to 7.1 speaker mix virtualised over stereo headphones). For stereo speakers you would need a different virtualisation algorithm.

It's pre-processed so contains no atmos encoding.

rids57 · 25 Apr 2017 at 19:10

I think I'm finally getting it now

Minstadave · 26 Apr 2017 at 21:05

Just trying this now on stereo audio and it seems ok. Not sure I'd pay for it.

kedge · 29 Apr 2017 at 05:28

I have never been impressed with any claimed headphone surround, it's either way too much reverb in a stereo field or just sounds no different to stereo.

Zhuni · 6 May 2017 at 12:54

There's something odd going on with DAFH. I've just plugged my headphones directly in to my pc mother board out and Atmos is sounding far better positioning wise and spatially, need to investigate. Its like its only half working out of my Dac amp.

Rroff · 7 May 2017 at 11:39

Some amps can distort the surround cues for instance if they have aluminium electrolytic capacitors in the audio signal path this seems to significantly reduce imaging in a lot of cases and likewise the specific use of other components.