Donald Trump

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Did any of you anti-Trumpers even follow the defence team yesterday? they pretty much blew the Democrats out of the water which is probably why they weren't allowed to say anything prior to the one-sided kangaroo impeachment in the house. If you still think he's guilty you must have pretty severe TDS that's affecting your ability to process logic, not exactly surprising after 2-3 years believing a Russia collusion hoax.
 
mmj_uk said:
Did any of you anti-Trumpers even follow the defence team yesterday? they pretty much blew the Democrats out of the water which is probably why they weren't allowed to say anything prior to the one-sided kangaroo impeachment in the house. If you still think he's guilty you must have pretty severe TDS that's affecting your ability to process logic, not exactly surprising after 2-3 years believing a Russia collusion hoax.
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I have not had chance to catch up on yesterday. How did they explain away Trumps illegal spying for personal gain? As confirmed by a member of Trumps inner core team. Spying which had nothing to do with getting rid of corruption.

How did they explain away a member of Trumps inner core team saying Trump is guilty and was doing it all to gain an illegal advantage for 2020. How did they explain away the evidence that person brought along with them and how they said it wasn’t to get rid of corruption but so Trump could gain illegal foreign aid for 2020.

How did they explain away the Government Accountability Office (GAO) ruling report that found Trump guilty?

How did they explain away that Ukraine know about the pressure before the phone call and the pressure was more than just money and linked into giving Trump illegal foreign aid?
 
Defence was basically a load of arse. Cites lack of sources, fails to note they obstructed justice by blocking those sources. Throw away rhetoric about stealing the election.

Its a sham trial/gop cover up. They will just vote along partisan lines because they are scared of the truth.
 
Pottsey said:
I have not had chance to catch up on yesterday. How did they explain away Trumps illegal spying for personal gain? As confirmed by a member of Trumps inner core team. Spying which had nothing to do with getting rid of corruption.

How did they explain away a member of Trumps inner core team saying Trump is guilty and was doing it all to gain an illegal advantage for 2020. How did they explain away the evidence that person brought along with them and how they said it wasn’t to get rid of corruption but so Trump could gain illegal foreign aid for 2020.

How did they explain away the Government Accountability Office (GAO) ruling report that found Trump guilty?

How did they explain away that Ukraine know about the pressure before the phone call and the pressure was more than just money and linked into giving Trump illegal foreign aid?
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Dude, literally, it's like all logic goes out the window, and people forgot what happens in trials, every sentence there, you've presumed guilt. It's still innocent until proven guilty.

1. There is no evidence of Trump ordering spying, if someone accused you of rape, there would need to be more evidence than just the accuser shouting it.
2. Again, it's one person accusing another, President Zelensky himself has said there was no pressure.
3. I'm not sure why you think this is a smoking gun of any sort. Obama was guilty of breaking GAO rules as well, a technicality if you will. Although there is a number of people that have criticised the GAO for interpreting the law incorrectly.
4. see number 2

The democrats evidence has been pathetic, no overwhelming evidence of any of it. It's an absolute circus
 
komrade-trump-did-nothing-wrong.png


Well, this was awkward:

For more than an hour one evening in 2018, President Trump sat around a dinner table in a private suite in his Washington hotel with a group of donors, including two men at the center of the impeachment inquiry, talking about golf, trade, politics — and removing the United States ambassador to Ukraine.

The conversation, captured on a recording made public Saturday, contradicted Mr. Trump’s repeated statements that he does not know the two men, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who went on to work with the president’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani to carry out a pressure campaign on Ukraine.

...Mr. Parnas continued by saying that “the biggest problem is corruption there,” and later added Ms. Yovanovitch, though not by name, to a list of issues Mr. Trump should address in Ukraine.

“The biggest problem there, I think, where we, where you, need to start is we got to get rid of the ambassador,” he said. “She’s basically walking around telling everybody, ‘Wait, he’s going to get impeached, just wait.’”

The remark prompted laughter in the room.
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(Source).

Ah, the irony of Trump laughing at the idea that he might be impeached! :D

Meanwhile, Democrats are absolutely crushing it at the impeachment trial:

The senators were a captive audience, though some ducked out, unseen by the stationary cameras. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina vanished before managers played a video of him, prosecuting the Clinton impeachment trial in 1999, in which he contradicted arguments he’s made to defend President Trump.
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(Source).

:D :D

Skunkworks said:
You just went to your echo chamber for reassurance.
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I don't have an echo chamber. I read everything from Zero Hedge to Axios. I even hang out on Voat.
 
Trusty said:
“1. There is no evidence of Trump ordering spying, if someone accused you of rape,

there would need to be more evidence than just the accuser shouting it.”
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There is more evidence then just someone shouting. First the spying clearly happened as seen by the evidence and records. Trumps deep core team did the spying that is proven and those people say is was done directly on Trumps orders. They also proved with evidence that Trump ordered them to go ahead and take her out.

What more do you need?



Trusty said:
“2. Again, it's one person accusing another, President Zelensky himself has said there was no pressure.”
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President Zelensky saying that does not prove anything. People being put under pressure unless they do what is requested often say everything is ok so that pressure isn’t applied. You cannot take the word of the person being put under pressure as everything is being ok. That’s just stupid. Use some common sense.

Its not just one person accusing the other. Lev was secretly recording his meetings and phone calls with Trump and Rudy. He handed over those recordings to the House. One of the recording came out yesterday proving they are real. The recording also prove Trump has been flat out lying for the past few days on TV. This yet again shows Trump is completely dishonest and has been flat out lying to the public.



Trusty said:
“The democrats evidence has been pathetic, no overwhelming evidence of any of it. It's an absolute circus”
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You are right about it being a circus because Trump and the Republicans voted to suppress the evidence, boasted about hiding the evidence and not letting the dems have access to it. It’s one giant cover up by the Republicans and you have to be blind to not see how they are doing a major cover up. Trump even boasted about obstruction of Justice and how he has the material and the dems are not getting it. The entire process is just one big joke to let Trump get away with corruption and lies.
 
Pottsey said:
There is more evidence then just someone shouting. First the spying clearly happened as seen by the evidence and records. Trumps deep core team did the spying that is proven and those people say is was done directly on Trumps orders. They also proved with evidence that Trump ordered them to go ahead and take her out.

What more do you need?
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What evidence is there that Trump directed the spying? i havent seen that.

Pottsey said:
President Zelensky saying that does not prove anything. People being put under pressure unless they do what is requested often say everything is ok so that pressure isn’t applied. You cannot take the word of the person being put under pressure as everything is being ok. That’s just stupid. Use some common sense.
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Zelensky/Ukraine has received more weaponry and assistance under Trump than Obama. There's no reason for him to lie, there was no leverage to take advantage of.

Pottsey said:
Its not just one person accusing the other. Lev was secretly recording his meetings and phone calls with Trump and Rudy. He handed over those recordings to the House. One of the recording came out yesterday proving they are real. The recording also prove Trump has been flat out lying for the past few days on TV. This yet again shows Trump is completely dishonest and has been flat out lying to the public.
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Are you talking about the recordings about firing the ambassador?

Why is that illegal to talk about? The president is allowed to fire an ambassador
 
Trusty said:
“What evidence is there that Trump directed the spying? i havent seen that.”
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Lev said he was ordered and directed by Trump. Who else would have told him to do it? If nothing happened why do you think Ukraine have opened up 2 different criminal investigations into Trump?

Why are you not bothered with Trump and the Republicans doing a cover up and trying to suppress evidence? Why doesn’t Trump boasting about withholding material bother you?



Trusty said:
“Are you talking about the recordings about firing the ambassador?”
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and more. Lev recorded a lot of his meeting and phone calls with Trumps and Rudy. Which he gave to the house and yesterday 1 of them leaked to the public which proves they are real.

You keep skipping over the fact that a deep core member of the Trumps team who was deeply involved in the illegal scheme has admitted it’s all true and that he did it all under direct orders from Trump. Why would Lev lie about that? Why doesn’t it bother you that Trump has spent the past days flat out lying on public TV? Why does Lev not count as a valid first hand witness into the deep working of the illegal scheme?


Let me try another approach. If nothing happened and this is all fake then how did a deep core member of Trumps team come forward and say its all did happen? How do you defend and explain that away? If nothing happen then why did Ukraine open up two criminal investigations?
 
Pottsey said:
Lev said he was ordered and directed by Trump. Who else would have told him to do it? If nothing happened why do you think Ukraine have opened up 2 different criminal investigations into Trump?

Why are you not bothered with Trump and the Republicans doing a cover up and trying to suppress evidence? Why doesn’t Trump boasting about withholding material bother you?




and more. Lev recorded a lot of his meeting and phone calls with Trumps and Rudy. Which he gave to the house and yesterday 1 of them leaked to the public which proves they are real.

You keep skipping over the fact that a deep core member of the Trumps team who was deeply involved in the illegal scheme has admitted it’s all true and that he did it all under direct orders from Trump. Why would Lev lie about that? Why doesn’t it bother you that Trump has spent the past days flat out lying on public TV? Why does Lev not count as a valid first hand witness into the deep working of the illegal scheme?


Let me try another approach. If nothing happened and this is all fake then how did a deep core member of Trumps team come forward and say its all did happen? How do you defend and explain that away? If nothing happen then why did Ukraine open up two criminal investigations?
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You keep saying the same things, but you still haven't provided any other evidence apart from hearsay.

Like i said, if someone accused you of rape, you be pretty dam annoyed if you went to jail because of what someone said.

What other evidence do you have bar Lev saying he was directed?

Again, what is illegal about firing an ambassador? You keep saying illegal scheme, its a crime, but its not, Trump has the authority to fire an ambassador, why does it matter that it was recorded?
 
chroniclard said:
Other than the huge stack of evidence and witnesses there is no evidence. Shame there no impartial/fair trial. #GOPCoverUp
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Where is the evidence of several people saying Trump ordered spying?

I havent seen it. We've had Lev Parnas say it, that's it.
 
Trusty said:
“You keep saying the same things, but you still haven't provided any other evidence apart from hearsay.”
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That’s because you keep skipping my questions.

Its not hearsay that Trump has just spent days lying on TV. Why does not that bother you?
Its not hearsay that Ukraine open up two criminal investigations after looking at the evidence. What do you make of that? Why would they open up investigations after looking at the evidence if there was no evidence?
A first hand witness directly involved is further evidence. How is it not? If a team of people are accused of a crime and deep core member of that team comes forward saying yes, we all did it. How is that only hearsay? Why would you write off what the one person says?
Why are you not bothered with Trump and the Republicans doing a cover up and trying to suppress evidence? Why doesn’t Trump boasting about withholding material bother you?



Trusty said:
“Like i said, if someone accused you of rape, you be pretty dam annoyed if you went to jail because of what someone said.”
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Likewise if the person standing next to the rapist said I watched him do the rape it was all preplanned. You would be pretty dam annoyed if the rapist then voted to suppress the evidence, boasted about how he had all the evidence on what he did but you’re not having any of it. Then flat out lies about knowing the other person who witnesses it all despite that person proving they were there.

You see the problem?


Trusty said:
“Again, what is illegal about firing an ambassador? You keep saying illegal scheme, its a crime, but its not, Trump has the authority to fire an ambassador, why does it matter that it was recorded?”
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The illegal scheme as in the plan to gain illegal aid from Ukraine for 2020. Its all interconnected. Its not legal to spy on an ambassador in another country and then fire her. The spying part makes it illegal. Its proven she was illegally spied on by Team Trump.



Trusty said:
“What other evidence do you have bar Lev saying he was directed?”
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Well Lev is a deep core member of Team Trump and his actions are authorized and managed by Trump. Lev recorded his conversations with Trump and handed them to the house as further evidence. He also handed over 1000 pages of documents, text messages, phone message, meeting notes to prove he was telling the truth. He was deeply involved in the illegal scheme not just the spying but all of it and is a credible first hand witness backed up by hard evidence. Although not all the evidence had made its way to the public as there has been a cover up by team Trump who voted to suppress the evidence. Some of it leaked to the press yesterday proving its real.
 
Pottsey said:
That’s because you keep skipping my questions.

Its not hearsay that Trump has just spent days lying on TV. Why does not that bother you?
Its not hearsay that Ukraine open up two criminal investigations after looking at the evidence. What do you make of that? Why would they open up investigations after looking at the evidence if there was no evidence?
A first hand witness directly involved is further evidence. How is it not? If a team of people are accused of a crime and deep core member of that team comes forward saying yes, we all did it. How is that only hearsay? Why would you write off what the one person says?
Why are you not bothered with Trump and the Republicans doing a cover up and trying to suppress evidence? Why doesn’t Trump boasting about withholding material bother you?
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I don't how many times i have to say? this is going to be the final time, how can you not understand how a trial works. If you are accused of something, hearsay is not enough. Show me evidence that supports Lev's claim that he was ordered to spy? a audio conversation? an email? a text message? anything. I haven't seen anything to support this claim, if audio is released in the trial or something which supports the claim and you can hear Trump say it, i'm all ears, i'm willing to change my view obviously. But if a president is to be removed, it needs overwhelming evidence to support that

Clinton had in investigation opened on her, didn't she? Was she found guilty? She wasn't.

You talked about not being able to trust Zalensky because of pressure. How do you know that Lev Parnas is not being leveraged to say these things? See, works both ways.

That's why you need more than hearsay, so i'll ask again, show me the evidence, link me to it please, i'm quite happy to look at it, but i haven't seen anything yet.


Pottsey said:
Likewise if the person standing next to the rapist said I watched him do the rape it was all preplanned. You would be pretty dam annoyed if the rapist then voted to suppress the evidence, boasted about how he had all the evidence on what he did but you’re not having any of it. Then flat out lies about knowing the other person who witnesses it all despite that person proving they were there.

You see the problem?
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The president is allowed to use his privilege in circumstances surrounding national security, Obama did it, was he impeached? No. The president is allowed leeway as he also considered an enforcer.



Pottsey said:
The illegal scheme as in the plan to gain illegal aid from Ukraine for 2020. Its all interconnected. Its not legal to spy on an ambassador in another country and then fire her. The spying part makes it illegal. Its proven she was illegally spied on by Team Trump.


Well Lev is a deep core member of Team Trump and his actions are authorized and managed by Trump. Lev recorded his conversations with Trump and handed them to the house as further evidence. He also handed over 1000 pages of documents, text messages, phone message, meeting notes to prove he was telling the truth. He was deeply involved in the illegal scheme not just the spying but all of it and is a credible first hand witness backed up by hard evidence. Although not all the evidence had made its way to the public as there has been a cover up by team Trump who voted to suppress the evidence. Some of it leaked to the press yesterday proving its real.
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Show me the evidence, you keep saying these things, but you literally haven't linked me to any articles to back up the claims, just show me?
 
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neckbeardthethird said:
FFS people just admit you don't care

Would have so much more respect if people just said 'I don't care if he's guilty still prefer him to dems' rather than try and do mental gymnastics to make out he's not bent as ****.
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Because if Trump said pigs can fly then pigs will fly. Not only will they believe it. They will come up with some.explanation to defy the laws of physics, time, space and reality. Then label it alternative facts. Trump facts.
 
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