I hadn't thought about liability insurance but how often do accidents happen and how much would they cost? My experience is limited to fluid checks and winscreen washer topups but I do wonder how often claimable accidents happen?
Don't have a garage?
- Thread starter Siliconslave
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NickXX said:
Not at all, it's working in France isn't it? I imagaine you would have to make sure that people signed some kind of disclaimer stating that any injury caused by their own incompetence (rather than equipment failure etc.) is their own problem.
I think it could be a workable business plan, but you would need to choose the right area.
Dogbreath said:
But why bother? The saving is so small it doesn't seem worth it to me.
Professional garage might charge £40 per hour and it'll take them 30 mins to change an exhaust so it'll cost you £20
If you go to one of these places it'll cost you £9 per hour and would probably take me 1 hour to change the exhaust as I'm not as quick as a professionals who change them day in day out therefore saving the the huge sum of £11 (and probably shedding some knuckles it the process).
On my old R5 GT turbo I bought a Mongoose exhaust for £150, the fitted price was £180 so I thought I'd save £30 by fitting it myself. It took me about 5 hours to hack the old one off due to rusted bolts etc. I then had to resort to driving to my mates house to borrow an angle grinder to help with the job thus costing petrol money too. I wish I'd just paid the £30 and got it done by the garage, let them deal with the rusty bolts etc.
I think I'd have a go at doing a few jobs if facilities like this were available and I had the time. However, the garage I go to are really good and I know things will be done properly.
Like Eidolon, to me it doesn't cost much to have them do things that would take me twice as long. I'd also worry about knackering my car and it being off the road...if I had a second car I'd maybe have a go if garage facilities were available.
Like Eidolon, to me it doesn't cost much to have them do things that would take me twice as long. I'd also worry about knackering my car and it being off the road...if I had a second car I'd maybe have a go if garage facilities were available.
As for liability insurance - it wouldnt be a problem and it wouldnt cost much.
As said, liability would only attach resulting from an item of machinery failing - say the ramps refused to stop and crushed someone or a car. If you break your nose trying to undo a bolt - thats your tough luck.
The only complication is customer to customer liability, where a customer could leave a tool on the floor and another trips over it - that would be picked up by the rent a garage liability insurance.
No big deal anyway.
As for the idea - 50/50 on it myself. For oil changes and odd jobs I go to my local grease monkey and pay him £10 in cash to do it for me. £10 to fit my cat back, £10 for pretty much anything that doesn't involve any more than 30 minutes. He likes £10 notes. Also carried out an interim service for me for £50, I supply the parts, he gets his hands dirty.
As said, liability would only attach resulting from an item of machinery failing - say the ramps refused to stop and crushed someone or a car. If you break your nose trying to undo a bolt - thats your tough luck.
The only complication is customer to customer liability, where a customer could leave a tool on the floor and another trips over it - that would be picked up by the rent a garage liability insurance.
No big deal anyway.
As for the idea - 50/50 on it myself. For oil changes and odd jobs I go to my local grease monkey and pay him £10 in cash to do it for me. £10 to fit my cat back, £10 for pretty much anything that doesn't involve any more than 30 minutes. He likes £10 notes. Also carried out an interim service for me for £50, I supply the parts, he gets his hands dirty.
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Tesla said:I was seriously considering setting up another business doing exactly this.
Do you think it would be popular?
Lifts are NOT cheap
This used to be very popular in the US, however you would be entering a financial and risk assessment nightmare. The cost of the hoists are the least of your worries.
Cost of tools will be massive.
Specialist equipment that you would need is vast.
The risk assessment for insurance purposes will be a bit more than mildly irritating.
Disposal of waste oil is now getting difficult and expensive.
and the list goes on.
Don't forget you can now get an oil and filter change at tyre exhaust centres for £20 without getting your hands dirty.
I'm interested in this Idea.
Some points:
Costs of lease of building and machinery - Not too much. (New lifts cost 3k though)
Tools - £5k max for all tools inc special (air, drills, compressor etc)
Insurance - this I don't know but when signing in to use the equipment this will act as a contract to protect you from incompetence - the customer will know this (disclamers will be there for own risk, must have mechanical knowlege etc and feel comfortable). This automatically covers you from people who don't have a clue, idiots etc. There will be assistants anyway to aid in the lift useage only (as not many people use them. That's all that should be done imo.
Assuming that attracts a sensible audience with knowledge and enthusiasm you automatically narrow down a lot of problems. Right?
There are many enthusiasts who would like the opportunity imo. Not just due to reduced costs but also as a hobby. It could be a nice social place too.
Time? Time? What about Time?!? Who can do this on a weekday? There will be a fairly narrow band of operating hours imo, so this would take work (open late etc) Weekends would be bustling I bet.
What do you think?
Sorry for the briefness and errors i'm in Uni.
Some points:
Costs of lease of building and machinery - Not too much. (New lifts cost 3k though)
Tools - £5k max for all tools inc special (air, drills, compressor etc)
Insurance - this I don't know but when signing in to use the equipment this will act as a contract to protect you from incompetence - the customer will know this (disclamers will be there for own risk, must have mechanical knowlege etc and feel comfortable). This automatically covers you from people who don't have a clue, idiots etc. There will be assistants anyway to aid in the lift useage only (as not many people use them. That's all that should be done imo.
Assuming that attracts a sensible audience with knowledge and enthusiasm you automatically narrow down a lot of problems. Right?
There are many enthusiasts who would like the opportunity imo. Not just due to reduced costs but also as a hobby. It could be a nice social place too.
Time? Time? What about Time?!? Who can do this on a weekday? There will be a fairly narrow band of operating hours imo, so this would take work (open late etc) Weekends would be bustling I bet.
What do you think?
Sorry for the briefness and errors i'm in Uni.
thebrasso said:
You see, I'm the opposite, I don't like mechanics working on my cars because I know very well that even the most conciensious mechanic is under a lot of pressure to get jobs through the garage as quickly as possible, and inevitably shortcuts are taken.
If you think your mechanic babies your car when you are not around then either he's familly/good friend or you are deluding yourself. I'm not saying they deliberately abuse or damage the car, but accidental damage through rushing a job happens far more often than you would like to believe.
AmDaMan said:
A few rough guestimates...
£25,000 tools
£25,000 ramps
£25,000 rent
£12,000 to refurbish the place
£20,000 liability insurance (with hefty excess)
£5,000 sundry expenses
£2,000 advertising
£5,000 business rates
£2,000 utility bills
£60,000 staff inc NI contributions etc
These are all off the top of my head but I think in the right ball park.
~£180k costs for the first year.
To break even after tax you'd need to turn over maybe £300k.
£25,000 tools - How would this be so much? Can you give me a quick breakdown?
£25,000 ramps - The bloke who did my clutch said they were 3k NEW! These were electric/hydraulic .. so a lease would be cheaper..
£25,000 rent
£12,000 to refurbish the place
£20,000 liability insurance (with hefty excess)
£5,000 sundry expenses
£2,000 advertising - Hmm I bet that figure could be reduced simply by going to enthusiasts clubs, word of mouth etc. Although location would be a key factor to reduce this cost
£5,000 business rates
£2,000 utility bills
£60,000 staff inc NI contributions etc - How much staff do you think i would need? The staff do not need to have anything other than operating the ramps and the computers.. The mechanical bit is for the customer this is the whole idea. I don't think anymore than 2 staff would be needed initially tbh.
I reckon those initial costs could be halved at least.
Cheers for the pointers muncher, can you build on my points as you seem to know what you're on about. Ta.
£25,000 ramps - The bloke who did my clutch said they were 3k NEW! These were electric/hydraulic .. so a lease would be cheaper..
£25,000 rent
£12,000 to refurbish the place
£20,000 liability insurance (with hefty excess)
£5,000 sundry expenses
£2,000 advertising - Hmm I bet that figure could be reduced simply by going to enthusiasts clubs, word of mouth etc. Although location would be a key factor to reduce this cost
£5,000 business rates
£2,000 utility bills
£60,000 staff inc NI contributions etc - How much staff do you think i would need? The staff do not need to have anything other than operating the ramps and the computers.. The mechanical bit is for the customer this is the whole idea. I don't think anymore than 2 staff would be needed initially tbh.
I reckon those initial costs could be halved at least.
Cheers for the pointers muncher, can you build on my points as you seem to know what you're on about. Ta.
In terms of tools you would only buy the likes of snap on, simply because they will last and take punishment. The last thing punters would want is cheap tools/broken tools/not enough tools.
Assuming you have 4-6 ramps you will need enough to cater for 4/6 cars at once. You won't just need socket sets, you will need things like compressors, welders, hydraulic presses, lighting.
I think it you were to find out the costs of equipping a normal idependant garage, and making it capable of operating with 6 cars at once £25k might be an extremely conservative estimate.
The cost was for 6 ramps, installed, serviced etc. Sure renting will work out cheaper in the short term, but a lot more in the long term. Does anyone even rent something like that?
If you are investing £180k in a business I certainly wouldn't want to scrimp on advertising and I imagine the bank wouldn't like that either. £2k would only buy you a short ad on Pistonheads and one or 2 in magazines.
Two staff there at any one time. Therefore you need at least 3 to rotate. Much of this will be dictated by your liability insurers who will want a minimum of 2 people to supervise, they will have to be fully trained in health and safety, safe working practices, what happens when they offer people a hand a drop a car on someone?
Given a salary of I guess £20k each, the cost of employing them is effectively double that, you're then looking at £120k a year and probably more as one person isn't sufficient cover.
As with all these things, it seems like a good idea, but it won't be cheap and if it was such a great idea why has no one done it in the UK before. You also have to realise such projects rarely come in under budget.
Say £350k turnover needed to break even. @ £9 per hour
~ 40,000 hours
~ 115 hours per day
= Each ramp needs to be in use 19 hours per day!
That is with only the conservative estimates for staff and tools.
Assuming you have 4 ramps to start with.
Assuming 50% of theramps on average will be in use throughout the day, for 12 hours per day.
£9 per hour gives you a turnover of £75k per year. Not enough to even cover staff costs.
On those figures it would need to be at least £30 per hour to stand a cat in hells chance of meeting your costs. Which is prohibitively expensive.
These are very much back of a fag packet calculations but it's not difficult to see that you'd not exactly be raking it in
Assuming you have 4-6 ramps you will need enough to cater for 4/6 cars at once. You won't just need socket sets, you will need things like compressors, welders, hydraulic presses, lighting.
I think it you were to find out the costs of equipping a normal idependant garage, and making it capable of operating with 6 cars at once £25k might be an extremely conservative estimate.
The cost was for 6 ramps, installed, serviced etc. Sure renting will work out cheaper in the short term, but a lot more in the long term. Does anyone even rent something like that?
If you are investing £180k in a business I certainly wouldn't want to scrimp on advertising and I imagine the bank wouldn't like that either. £2k would only buy you a short ad on Pistonheads and one or 2 in magazines.
Two staff there at any one time. Therefore you need at least 3 to rotate. Much of this will be dictated by your liability insurers who will want a minimum of 2 people to supervise, they will have to be fully trained in health and safety, safe working practices, what happens when they offer people a hand a drop a car on someone?
Given a salary of I guess £20k each, the cost of employing them is effectively double that, you're then looking at £120k a year and probably more as one person isn't sufficient cover.
As with all these things, it seems like a good idea, but it won't be cheap and if it was such a great idea why has no one done it in the UK before. You also have to realise such projects rarely come in under budget.
Say £350k turnover needed to break even. @ £9 per hour
~ 40,000 hours
~ 115 hours per day
= Each ramp needs to be in use 19 hours per day!
That is with only the conservative estimates for staff and tools.
Assuming you have 4 ramps to start with.
Assuming 50% of theramps on average will be in use throughout the day, for 12 hours per day.
£9 per hour gives you a turnover of £75k per year. Not enough to even cover staff costs.
On those figures it would need to be at least £30 per hour to stand a cat in hells chance of meeting your costs. Which is prohibitively expensive.
These are very much back of a fag packet calculations but it's not difficult to see that you'd not exactly be raking it in
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You'd be better off filling the industrial unit full of giant climbing frame and charge the young single mums £2.50 per child per hour plus £1 tea and coffee and £3 for food.
Make £150-200 an hour
Or have amatuer hour with Percy Wrench Warrior covering himself, your garage and everyone around him in engine oil!!!
^^^^Old Mr Soft Hands
Make £150-200 an hour
Or have amatuer hour with Percy Wrench Warrior covering himself, your garage and everyone around him in engine oil!!!
merlin said:
^^^^Old Mr Soft Hands
My calculations were based on 4 ramps, these things can be leased as far as i'm aware but at 3k when not buy them?
I don't see the point of national advertising if there is initially only one location? Word of mouth spreads faster than just about anything else. Local paper reviews etc are a bonus, there are several ways other than splashing out unnecessary amounts imo. I bet advertising could be achived on a budget of 1k easily (insignificant when we know the other costs but it all helps.)
Won't the staff work to their agreed contracts? As the opening times need to cater for demand (eg opening later at night when people finish work). So say a total of 4 in rotation for the week. Their jobs wouldn't need any special skills except for lift training + computer literacy, which would mean their wage wouldn't need to be much at all. The staff supervise, they would not be there to help people with repairs, just operating a lift, cleaning etc.
I think keeping key overhead costs down here would be the essential (and hard) factor as this is the difference between make or break imo.
I don't see the point of national advertising if there is initially only one location? Word of mouth spreads faster than just about anything else. Local paper reviews etc are a bonus, there are several ways other than splashing out unnecessary amounts imo. I bet advertising could be achived on a budget of 1k easily (insignificant when we know the other costs but it all helps.)
Won't the staff work to their agreed contracts? As the opening times need to cater for demand (eg opening later at night when people finish work). So say a total of 4 in rotation for the week. Their jobs wouldn't need any special skills except for lift training + computer literacy, which would mean their wage wouldn't need to be much at all. The staff supervise, they would not be there to help people with repairs, just operating a lift, cleaning etc.
I think keeping key overhead costs down here would be the essential (and hard) factor as this is the difference between make or break imo.
AmDaMan said:
Sure, but your liability insurers will dictate and awful lot what your staff can/can not do. They will want to ensure they are reasonably well trained to recognise and stop dangerous practices.
Assuming £17,500 for each member of staff, that's a total expense incurred of £140,000.
That's 100% more than predicted turnover already...
But insurance isn't cheap, in fact according to the Federation of Small Businesses premiums in general have risen by 60% over the past year with the average cost rising to around £17,000. It's not exactly a good advert for anyone wanting to start up on their own.
With 20 drivers and office staff, Absolute Freight, a courier firm in Antrim is feeling the strain.
It's run by Amanda Frew and her husband Ken. Overall they claim their insurance premiums have risen from £35,000 to £100,000, with employer and public liability cover having increased considerably. They've already lost one member of staff, remortgaged their house, and taken out personal loans to meet their insurance costs. They'd like to expand, but they feel it's not worth it.
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If you do some research, premiums are through the roof now. From what I've just read I wouldn't be surprised if the premium was over £50k!
With 20 drivers and office staff, Absolute Freight, a courier firm in Antrim is feeling the strain.
It's run by Amanda Frew and her husband Ken. Overall they claim their insurance premiums have risen from £35,000 to £100,000, with employer and public liability cover having increased considerably. They've already lost one member of staff, remortgaged their house, and taken out personal loans to meet their insurance costs. They'd like to expand, but they feel it's not worth it.
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If you do some research, premiums are through the roof now. From what I've just read I wouldn't be surprised if the premium was over £50k!