Dragons' Den

shifty_uk said:
..... They can't go around giving out 200K for a business idea that will never take off, or go completely bust....
Ah, but they can and do. That's the whole point. That is why they nearly always insist on a substantial share of these ventures, a level of share that seems greedy. It's risk/return analysis.

Venture capital is all about RISK. You know that there's a decent chance that any given investment will fail. So the maths is based on a concept like :-

..... take £1m. Invest in 5 companies, £200k each. Quite possibly 1 in 5 will succeed, and 4 in 5 will fail totally. So, what you've really done is invest £1m in the one that is a success, not £200k. It's a sort of spread bet. And, because that's the real investment, if you want 45% of the company, you're really saying you're prepared to risk £1m for that 45%, because statistically, you are indeed risking it.

The real gift for a successful VC is to exercise care in picking your investments to try to ensure that your success:failure ratio is more like 1:3 than 1:10. In the latter case, you probably would have been better sticking your money in leading stocks or gilts, because you'd have got more or less the same level of return with much less risk, or no risk at all.

And, of course, with any VC investment, you are also looking to at least recoup the investment, while keeping half an eye open for the next golden goose. Wouldn't a £200,000 45% investment in a certain unknown Bellevue (Washington state) private company software house have been a scoop in, say, 1980? If anyone hasn't worked out who I mean, 'you know who' moved from Bellevue to Redmond some years later. :)

Oh, and bear in mind that if these ventures weren't so risky, the applicants would be getting the money from a bank. If they KNEW their idea was sound, they'd rather pay a few percent interest than give up a third or more of their business. And if the risk was that low, the banks would be queueing up to lend. These people go to VCs because they can't get conventional bank finance, and because the expertise of people like these dragons significantly lowers the risk the applicants are taking that the venture fails because the VC is onboard. And, typically, no VC will just hand over the money and sit back and wait to see what happens. They will want some degree of involvement in the enterprise, though probably at an overview/mentoring level, rather than day-to-day management involvement.
 
Ok this auto-mixing thing.

I have used software that does this before. It doesn't do that great a job - but I am not convinced his will either. Now is this guy seriously saying if I wrote a program that did auto beat matching (all kinds of ways you could do it) he can sue?

Also this business to me doesn't stand up. I thought Richard was 100% right that he shouldn't get invovled in the music download market - even itunes doesn't make money and its almost impossible to compete with them. Surely the cache of the MoS mixes comes from the celebrity DJs and their inherent skill?

Anyway, I just see this one as a bad investment.
 
flat-6 said:
Ok this auto-mixing thing.

I have used software that does this before. It doesn't do that great a job - but I am not convinced his will either. Now is this guy seriously saying if I wrote a program that did auto beat matching (all kinds of ways you could do it) he can sue?

Also this business to me doesn't stand up. I thought Richard was 100% right that he shouldn't get invovled in the music download market - even itunes doesn't make money and its almost impossible to compete with them. Surely the cache of the MoS mixes comes from the celebrity DJs and their inherent skill?

Anyway, I just see this one as a bad investment.

I agree. I think this bloke should have just gone with the other dragons idea and scrapped selling music, just sell it as a plugin for Itunes or something!
 
flat-6 said:
Ok this auto-mixing thing.

I have used software that does this before. It doesn't do that great a job - but I am not convinced his will either. Now is this guy seriously saying if I wrote a program that did auto beat matching (all kinds of ways you could do it) he can sue?

Also this business to me doesn't stand up. I thought Richard was 100% right that he shouldn't get invovled in the music download market - even itunes doesn't make money and its almost impossible to compete with them. Surely the cache of the MoS mixes comes from the celebrity DJs and their inherent skill?

Anyway, I just see this one as a bad investment.

Hmm i'm undecided man... on the face of it, it;s a brilliant idea. I love dance music, and when downloading tunes each time I end up with a disjointed CD that starts/stope between tracks. If I want mixed tunes I either have to get a DJ mate to make me a CD, or get an 'official' compilation that will inevitably being 50% muck. With this idea, I can theoretically take every track i've ever spaffed over and mix it into a chain of CD's that are... mixed. No DJ mate needed, and it's guaranteed that I will love each and every song.

Definately a market for it in my humble opinion, I guess it's just how he goes about implementing it that will prove the key factor (obvious but you know what I mean). :)
 
flat-6 said:
Ok this auto-mixing thing.

I have used software that does this before. It doesn't do that great a job - but I am not convinced his will either. Now is this guy seriously saying if I wrote a program that did auto beat matching (all kinds of ways you could do it) he can sue?

Also this business to me doesn't stand up. I thought Richard was 100% right that he shouldn't get invovled in the music download market - even itunes doesn't make money and its almost impossible to compete with them. Surely the cache of the MoS mixes comes from the celebrity DJs and their inherent skill?

Anyway, I just see this one as a bad investment.

I totally agree. I didn't see any good in this "invention" atall.
There is a lot of software available, even free software that is available to download that will automatically beatmatch and mix over two tracks. I see nothing original about this idea, and I don't think it will get anywhere.
He still needs to find a web agency to properly design/build a site and all the backend applications that will allow users to register, download and do all the things they're required to do.
To me, it's a useless idea, and it won't make any money atall. I didn't like the guy either tbh.

I thought it was quite nice tonight when the "cucumber condom" guy got offered a job :p

I seen some conflicts between Peter Jones and Richard Farleigh tonight ;)
 
Awful website, the title says 2100 hours, presumably launch, the mian image then says 2200 hours, and even now at 2212 it aint working.

Overall its a great show, not sure if i woulda turned down the £200k the women offering child yoga classes did however
 
I was unable to watch Dragons Den today (was at work).
Anyone know when the BBC Two website will let me stream todays episode ?

Thanks
 
dadofsam said:
Awful website, the title says 2100 hours, presumably launch, the mian image then says 2200 hours, and even now at 2212 it aint working.

Overall its a great show, not sure if i woulda turned down the £200k the women offering child yoga classes did however
Thats what i was confused about, then i clicked refresh at 22:10 and the website popped up. It should be working for you now, I'm not really into dance music so i just had a quick look.

Mark
 
shifty_uk said:
[edit]
Simon Cowell is a joke, and I wouldn't compair these people to him.
He needs to get a decent haircut aswell, the top of his head looks square.

You realise that Simon Cowell isn't a bad business man either? (Simon Fuller probably moreso though...)
 
Last edited:
With regards to mixalbum.com, when running a company primarily based on the internet and technology, you'd think you'd get your hosting sorted out. :rolleyes:
 
flat-6 said:
Ok this auto-mixing thing.

I have used software that does this before. It doesn't do that great a job - but I am not convinced his will either. Now is this guy seriously saying if I wrote a program that did auto beat matching (all kinds of ways you could do it) he can sue?

Also this business to me doesn't stand up. I thought Richard was 100% right that he shouldn't get invovled in the music download market - even itunes doesn't make money and its almost impossible to compete with them. Surely the cache of the MoS mixes comes from the celebrity DJs and their inherent skill?

Anyway, I just see this one as a bad investment.

I can probably shed light on what exactly he is doing. I do a bit of work on audio processing algorithms myself, so had a look at his patent.

What this guy has done is actually much simpler than the automatic mixing software you are probably used to. For each track a human analyses the track and marks 'beginning and end regions' as well as specifying the BPM and beat locations etc etc. This data is then stored alongside the music and allows any two tracks to be mixed into one another. Since the original annotation is actually done by a human it should be more reliable than truely automatic mixing software.

He probably didn't want to let someone like itunes use the technology and take royalties because there isn't any technology to this software! Its just straightforward human annotation and very very basic song mixing based on that. I could knock together something to do that in under a day :confused: .

Personally I think this is an awful investment. The whole idea is flawed. . .Suppose I want a mix CD, so I go to this website and download it. Now suppose I want to swap the order of the songs. I would have to buy them all again to get them mixed in a different order! I would much rather download each song not mixed in to anything else and then use software to mix them on my own PC, hence allowing me to fiddle with the order as much as I want.
 
Slinwagh said:
I was going to ask the same question!


If you read back a page or two you will find out its me! i got a call today guys, the latest is that im having an interview with local foxfm radio and oxford mail, the PR press release was completed today and its all kicking off, the PR agent said that she will sort everything out which is nice, i barely know what i got ahead of me and what its all about (the next 5 years of my life , Dragons den>Uni? etc), i have only just got back from my holiday so i just entered the fray of it all! :p
 
Lagz said:
Personally I think this is an awful investment. The whole idea is flawed. . .Suppose I want a mix CD, so I go to this website and download it. Now suppose I want to swap the order of the songs. I would have to buy them all again to get them mixed in a different order! I would much rather download each song not mixed in to anything else and then use software to mix them on my own PC, hence allowing me to fiddle with the order as much as I want.

How, praytell, do you mix the order of the songs on a pre-mixed CD you buy from the shops?
 
I personally can't stand listening to certain tracks in an album as most albums are laid out in a specific way. You just lose all the atmosphere of a good album if you swich songs to the ones you like.
 
Have you guys watched Time Trumpet? It was on BBC2 at 22.00 the other night. It's basicly a spoof 'I love the 90s' set in 2030, looking back at 2005/6/7/8.

There's a few cool sketches featuring dragons den

Also 'Dean Learner' from Marenghi's Darkplace for the win!
 
Last edited:
That standalone boiled egg cooker from the second to last show would rule. Anyone know if there's a website or anything I can bookmark to find out when/if it comes to market?
 
Back
Top Bottom