Dragons' Den

WotDa · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:06

daz said:
That wireless thing was good, however I'd be seriously concerned about security with that amount of data flying through the air.

As would I, I'd like to see if it even worked before whacking money into it. :rolleyes:

Energize · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:06

daz said:
That wireless thing was good, however I'd be seriously concerned about security with that amount of data flying through the air.

Thats why theres wpa2 and mac filtering.

RandomTom · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:13

www.coinmetrics.com

They looked like the only ones with a decent working idea tonight, although I missed the woman with 'smartchartz' and a few just after her.

AJUK · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:19

I am looking forward to next week's episode and seeing how some of the pitchers have got on.

shifty_uk · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:28

AJUK said:
I am looking forward to next week's episode and seeing how some of the pitchers have got on.

daz · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:33

Energize said:
Thats why theres wpa2 and mac filtering.

Where there's a will there's a way.

I imagine the best way is if the machines talk to the 'server' via some sort of public key encryption, as well as introducing wpa2 and mac filtering.

Energize · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:43

daz said:
Where there's a will there's a way.

Yes brute force which takes many many years.

Una · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:48

Energize said:
Yes brute force which takes many many years.

Depends on the key length and the number of packets captured. Its also possible to implement in hardware (FPGA's) to increase the speed.

Energize · 21 Sep 2006 at 21:55

Una said:
Depends on the key length and the number of packets captured. Its also possible to implement in hardware (FPGA's) to increase the speed.

Wpa2 uses a long key so it would take ages, not that someones going to be sat there with their laptop for days outside the arcade, not only that but higher end routers change the key used every few hours.

Una · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:00

Energize said:
Wpa2 uses a long key so it would take ages, not that someones going to be sat there with their laptop for days outside the arcade, not only that but higher end routers change the key used every few hours.

Read H1kari presentation from defcon this year. The FPGA they designed could do 400keys/minute. Course its possible to sit outside an arcade with a laptop and log packets. Even though its hard to brute force it at the moment, I bet a flaw in the algorithm will be found in future.

tang0 · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:10

Energize · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:20

Una said:
Read H1kari presentation from defcon this year. The FPGA they designed could do 400keys/minute. Course its possible to sit outside an arcade with a laptop and log packets. Even though its hard to brute force it at the moment, I bet a flaw in the algorithm will be found in future.

400 keys a minute out of 2^128 combinations is nothing.

Una · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:22

Energize said:
400 keys a minute out of 2^128 combinations is nothing.

Still much better than anything you will ever get out of software.

Energize · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:25

Yes but my point is it wont ever decrypt it.

Peve · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:25

Just to point out its not using 802.11 its using Bluetooth and I don’t think you can use WEP,WPA or Mac filtering with Bluetooth.

Energize · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:26

You can encrypt data sent over any connection if you want and bluetooth does have mac filtering.

bam0 · 21 Sep 2006 at 22:36

daz said:
Where there's a will there's a way.

There needs to be a motivation first. And you have to look at the value of the data being transmitted, it's really of little use to anyone apart from the proprietor of the arcade.

Joe42 · 22 Sep 2006 at 02:29

daz said:
That wireless thing was good, however I'd be seriously concerned about security with that amount of data flying through the air.

They said it would be very difficult to copy, but to me it looks like all the arcade machines must use a standard interface for this data so surely its just an 802.11x module and a standard chip to communicate with the standard protocol for these machines stuck together. Fairly easy to copy i'd say.

And the guy with the gearbox (or whatever it was) really should have got someone else to do the pitch. It was a high ratio gearbox, which could be used for wind turbines, but the dragons didn't invest because they didn't like the look of the wind turbine. That wasn't even part of his invention was it?

RetiredGreyFox · 22 Sep 2006 at 18:25

frakker said:
Might be interesting: http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/archi...62194&method=full&siteid=62484-name_page.html

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7881844&postcount=161

Psycho Ned · 22 Sep 2006 at 18:45

and heres Peter Jones response to that.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2001320029-2006440045,00.html

Peter Jones said:
And he admits that almost 30 per cent of the successful applicants have been untruthful in their pitch, with some fabricating secured orders.

Do people really think the dragons wont actually check their claims? You'd have to be incredibly neive to think that they shake your hand then you go round the back and Pete Jones writes you a cheque out for £200,000 like some of the people in that mirror article seemed to think happens!