Drivers both AMD/Nvidia - The Future

[flopper]

DirectX 12 might change this..

I go as far to say, it has already changed things.
People reporting windows 10 works better so down the line crossfire/sli will be better even though the issues with dual or more cards will have technical difficultties but at least the game developer have more control now that should allow better drivers.

 

[flopper]

They have an article on Wccftech stating that with a memory optimised game. The fury x ran the new early access Dirt game at a constant 60fps across three 3840x2160 monitors.

Thats the benefit of HBM and memory performance higher Minfps and better performance for those guys wanting bigger screen resolutions.

 

[tommybhoy]

Drivers are **** in one form or other, awol mgpu game profiles or instability, it's a **** take tbph considering the new pp, taking enthusiasts for absolute mugs while getting handsomely rewarded.

Waiting for DX12 to take care of the **** drivers, not going to happen, if anything it will get worse.

 

[Mauller]

Waiting for DX12 to take care of the **** drivers, not going to happen, if anything it will get worse.

It is up to the game developer to deal with performance issues and multi gpu with DX12. So fixes for performance can be released quicker and games should have higher performance and have fewer graphics issues at launch. considering the developer can directly see what is going on in the graphics chain.

 

[tommybhoy]

It is up to the game developer to deal with performance issues and multi gpu with DX12.

Yeah aware of that, there in lies the problem that will cause the crowds to errupt, it's bad enough now with the(highly arguable) GW's virus that's exclusive to AMD/older Nvidia.

Devs will only 'fix' what they are paid to 'fix'-then walk away with everyone pointing fingers at each other, they don't want more work, they are human like the rest of us.

Rebellion bummed up what can be achieved with mgpu on Mantle then quietly left the building, I chased them on support/Twitter and always got the door slammed in my face.

 

[Silent_Scone]

It is up to the game developer to deal with performance issues and multi gpu with DX12. So fixes for performance can be released quicker and games should have higher performance and have fewer graphics issues at launch. considering the developer can directly see what is going on in the graphics chain.

Yeah aware of that, there in lies the problem that will cause the crowds to errupt, it's bad enough now with the(highly arguable) GW's virus that's exclusive to AMD/older Nvidia.

Devs will only 'fix' what they are paid to 'fix'-then walk away with everyone pointing fingers at each other, they don't want more work, they are human like the rest of us.

Rebellion bummed up what can be achieved with mgpu on Mantle then quietly left the building, I chased them on support/Twitter and always got the door slammed in my face.

Hi,

It is not up to any one party alone to support vendor functionality. It is a joint effort that involves both making the engine compatible and providing a suitable profile. More of the work can often fall on the developers. If an engine inherently relies on the previous frame it can be difficult to extract a lot of performance. This can induce flickering unless the timings are altered in the bits which will reduce scaling.

A lot of these reasons are why on site visitations from vendors are required, but more often than not they're lucky to get a single email from one vendor, whilst the other offers on site support.

The Unreal 4 engine is a good example of this, as are a lot of engines that use heavy post processing effects that can produce anomaly. Split frame rendering can overcome a lot of these issues, but sadly the scaling is no where near as good which is why developers have stayed far away from it till recently.

 

[Mauller]

Hi,

It is not up to any one party alone to support vendor functionality. It is a joint effort that involves both making the engine compatible and providing a suitable profile. More of the work can often fall on the developers. If an engine inherently relies on the previous frame it can be difficult to extract a lot of performance. This can induce flickering unless the timings are altered in the bits which will reduce scaling.

A lot of these reasons are why on site visitations from vendors are required, but more often than not they're lucky to get a single email from one vendor, whilst the other offers on site support.

The Unreal 4 engine is a good example of this, as are a lot of engines that use heavy post processing effects that can produce anomaly. Split frame rendering can overcome a lot of these issues, but sadly the scaling is no where near as good which is why developers have stayed far away from it till recently.

On site visits should be far less common and near to no longer required with Low Abstraction API's. Only if the developer comes across a bug in the abstraction layer would a driver update need issuing.

The Driver is a dumb translation layer with DX12/Mantle/Vulkan/Metal. So all of the performance and stability is dealt with in engine. No longer requiring driver updates for every new game that use low abstraction API's. And leaving all of the bug squishing to the developer.

Also with SFR. The main reason they stopped using SFR such as SuperTiling/Split screen is due to synchronisation problems. This is due to how Multi gpu is hacked on top of DX9 - 11. But with Low abstraction api's, all of the gpu control and multi gpu is explicitly in engine so everything can be synchronised directly. AFR needs to die, SFR and other forms of sub scene multi gpu rendering are the way forward. It will also allow the use of non matched GPU's in a system. The SFR in Civ:BE might not hit the same MAX fps, but the min, avg and latency are far superior which is where it counts. We just need a decent fast paced game like an FPS to use SFR SuperTiling to show it to the masses.

 

[Poneros]

I think the situation for multi-gpu solutions will be more like the single-gpu one in about 2 years or so. Right now DX12/Vulkan are still just in the early stages it will take a lot of time & work for them to become more mature solutions.

 

[Kaapstad]

It is up to the game developer to deal with performance issues and multi gpu with DX12. So fixes for performance can be released quicker and games should have higher performance and have fewer graphics issues at launch. considering the developer can directly see what is going on in the graphics chain.

This did not work so well for Mantle did it !!!

Game devs launched game.

Took money.

Didn't bother to sort out MGPU problems with Mantle.

Will they do the same with DX12 ?

 

[tommybhoy]

+1

Took ihv monies(guaranteed sales for arguments sakes), walk away whistling.

 

[Mauller]

This did not work so well for Mantle did it !!!

Game devs launched game.

Took money.

Didn't bother to sort out MGPU problems with Mantle.

Will they do the same with DX12 ?

Even so, the whole writing you own multi gpu system is new to the majority of developers. Things will improve as example code and experience increases.

Cant take the first few attempts as examples of what things will be like. Just look at CIV:BE, SFR SuperTiling is absolutely fantastic in that, the best multi gpu setup i have ever seen.

 

[Kaapstad]

Even so, the whole writing you own multi gpu system is new to the majority of developers. Things will improve as example code and experience increases.

Cant take the first few attempts as examples of what things will be like. Just look at CIV:BE, SFR SuperTiling is absolutely fantastic in that, the best multi gpu setup i have ever seen.

So what went wrong here ?

I don't see a lot of Mantle Multi GPU results.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18631907

 

[Mauller]

So what went wrong here ?

I don't see a lot of Mantle Multi GPU results.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18631907

Your point being? There are not many multi GPU results there for any setup. But it is new ground on the pc, so we just have to wait and see how things go.

 

[Kaapstad]

Your point being? There are not many multi GPU results there for any setup. But it is new ground on the pc, so we just have to wait and see how things go.

Mantle does not work for more than 2 cards where the game devs have not bothered to fix it.

As the Ferengi say "once you got their money never give it back" lol.

 

[toon_mad]

Drivers have always been the reason for me avoiding Crossfire/SLI. There are loads of people who invest in Multi GPU setups but are basically held back because of delays for compatible game profiles and other issues etc and it's a shame because consumers are not really getting 100% there moneys worth.

Considering Crossfire/SLI are always marketed on Graphics Cards, Motherboards and Power Supplies you would expect better service from ATI/Nvidia in regard to Multi GPU setups.

If I knew there were no issues with Crossfire/SLI and know I didn't need to wait over a month after game releases for a compatible profile I would be interested, until then running on the quickest single GPU you can afford I feel is always the best option.

 

[Silent_Scone]

On site visits should be far less common and near to no longer required with Low Abstraction API's. Only if the developer comes across a bug in the abstraction layer would a driver update need issuing.

The Driver is a dumb translation layer with DX12/Mantle/Vulkan/Metal. So all of the performance and stability is dealt with in engine. No longer requiring driver updates for every new game that use low abstraction API's. And leaving all of the bug squishing to the developer.

Also with SFR. The main reason they stopped using SFR such as SuperTiling/Split screen is due to synchronisation problems. This is due to how Multi gpu is hacked on top of DX9 - 11. But with Low abstraction api's, all of the gpu control and multi gpu is explicitly in engine so everything can be synchronised directly. AFR needs to die, SFR and other forms of sub scene multi gpu rendering are the way forward. It will also allow the use of non matched GPU's in a system. The SFR in Civ:BE might not hit the same MAX fps, but the min, avg and latency are far superior which is where it counts. We just need a decent fast paced game like an FPS to use SFR SuperTiling to show it to the masses.

Hi,

So to be clear you are saying less reason for communication between vendors and developers? I don't think that's particularly sound. I am aware of SFR's benefits, this scenario is not applicable to other games if there is not enough performance scaling nearer the top market segment. DICE had Mantle and still went with a derogatory form of AFR. What you seem to want likely won't happen for a considerable length of time. I hope it does, call me a cynic - but AFR is here to stay for at least another year or two.

 

[tommybhoy]

So what went wrong here ?

Mantle Civ.exe never got cracked, same happened with SE3, that's why sometimes there was next to no Mantle mgpu results.

 

[Mauller]

Mantle does not work for more than 2 cards where the game devs have not bothered to fix it.

As the Ferengi say "once you got their money never give it back" lol.

Just the same thing with experience again. Devs have to figure out ways to get their graphics stack synchronising across any number of cards without hard-coding for only a dual card system.

Things should get better in time. Mantle has still only been out for a little over a year.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Mantle Civ.exe never got cracked, same happened with SE3, that's why sometimes there was next to no Mantle mgpu results.

Cheap skates.

 

[Kaapstad]

Just the same thing with experience again. Devs have to figure out ways to get their graphics stack synchronising across any number of cards without hard-coding for only a dual card system.

Things should get better in time. Mantle has still only been out for a little over a year.

Devs prioritise making money and once the game is available the less they can get away with doing the better from their view point.

Civ BE is still available to buy so why have they not fixed Mantle for it, one word "money".