Drum Triggers.

Neoni

Neoni

Neoni

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Hey all,

Looking at expanding capabilties of my kit, and beefing up the sound some what for live performances, im looking at some drum triggers, no heres my beef!

If i take each signal from the drum trigger and send them into a Trigger to MIDI converter which converter should i buy? then can i take the MIDI signal, and Transfer MIDI > USB, into my Macbook Pro into Logic 8, into a Drum Module (EzDrummer, or Similar) then take the signal out of the mac, straight into the PA.

Doable?

-Neoni

P.s - whys my avatar a drumkit?
 
Im not a drummer, so probably not giving the best advice.

Found this

http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/roland-tmc-6-trigger-midi-conve/8310

I can only assume that you'll also need a midi interface to connect to the Mac via USB. So it'll go something like triggers > trigger to midi converter > midi interface > Mac via usb > logic 8.

http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/midisport/666

I get input and output to and from my mac via firewire to the mixer. You may find that whatever mixer you use may have usb or firewire which will give you output from the mac.
 
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I would advise you to retune your drums and put some good mic's on them.
I've yet to hear a good electronic drum module sound coming through a PA.
I went to see a band last week who had both on stage and the real kit sounded 100x better.
The other kit was the very top Roland kit but the hi hat didn't sound too bad.

The other thing is that doing it the way you want to do it is just asking for trouble in a live situation - too many boxes and depending on a computer.

After all these years I thought I'd got a good drum sound out of our kit and then I let a young lad on it who was doing a course at Uni and he improved it no end by re-tuning and mic placement.
 
You could start by using bigger sticks. :p
What heads have you got on the drums? If they're two-ply, or pre-muffled, try something lighter. The more you allow the air to vibrate, the more sound you'll get. Cutting out the 'ring' that may sound awful to you is cutting out the very thing that helps the sound to project.

Acoustic drums are always going to sound better than sampled sounds. You won't even get anywhere close without spending thousands.
 
raz0rr said:
Acoustic drums are always going to sound better than sampled sounds. You won't even get anywhere close without spending thousands.
Click to expand...

I went to watch one band where the drummer simulated the sounds of the actual tracks so you could hear the proper tones of Zeppelin, Purple, the Police etc but it just didn't work for me.
We had the same problem when our guitarist used a Line 6 Pod Pro and emulated famous guitarists sounds but it didn't work in a live situation.
 
I don't get the impression that he wants to replace the real drums but just rather to have an option to add some more "electronic" sounds if the song requires it.
 
melchy said:
I don't get the impression that he wants to replace the real drums but just rather to have an option to add some more "electronic" sounds if the song requires it.
Click to expand...

I thought he played in a classic rock band!
Bass drum, snare, 2/3 toms, hi-hat, ride and a couple of crashes - job done.
Some of the best rock drummers I've seen have played with a basic kit.
I've even removed the upside down cymbal and splash so he doesn't hit them.
The cowbell went too.
 
melchy said:
I don't get the impression that he wants to replace the real drums but just rather to have an option to add some more "electronic" sounds if the song requires it.
Click to expand...

Spot on, its not for all songs just for stuff like thunderstruck, and to change some sounds for versions of "Walk this way" etc, and also to add some beef to the kick drum, and DMPoole relying on my Macbook Pro isnt a problem, its done many performanced without failure.. also DMPoole you will find a lot of drummers today are using triggers, you just dont realise it.

@ Razor im using Evan G2's
 
dmpoole said:
I thought he played in a classic rock band!
Bass drum, snare, 2/3 toms, hi-hat, ride and a couple of crashes - job done.
Some of the best rock drummers I've seen have played with a basic kit.
I've even removed the upside down cymbal and splash so he doesn't hit them.
The cowbell went too.
Click to expand...

I do, but we play a lot of modern stuff to, that would sound awesome with a bit of unatural sounds at times!

my kit is:

8" 10" 14" Rack toms, Soon adding my spare 12"...

14" Snare

22" Bass Drum

2x 16' Crashes

1x Ride

1x 16" China

1x Cowbell

1x 8" Splash

1x Zilbel
 
dmpoole said:
Burn it with fire.
Click to expand...

Nooo! 8" splashes are awesome. I have 3 splashes on my kit, 8", 10" and 11" Paiste 2oo2 splashes :D In fact - I am sure that Mr. Ian Paice of Deep Purple fame used an 8" splash along with his huge cymbals!

Triggering isn't really the same as an electronic kit DMP too, although I guess it's the same principle - a lot of bands use it now to increase the stage presence of the drums a bit. (or for making the bass drum a bit clearer if you're playing death metal at 1000000 bpm :p) Wouldn't know where to start on it though, as I don't think I'll ever use them! Although I hear the dDrum triggers are good.
 
Dave said:
Nooo! 8" splashes are awesome. I have 3 splashes on my kit, 8", 10" and 11" Paiste 2oo2 splashes :D In fact - I am sure that Mr. Ian Paice of Deep Purple fame used an 8" splash along with his huge cymbals!

Triggering isn't really the same as an electronic kit DMP too, although I guess it's the same principle - a lot of bands use it now to increase the stage presence of the drums a bit. (or for making the bass drum a bit clearer if you're playing death metal at 1000000 bpm :p) Wouldn't know where to start on it though, as I don't think I'll ever use them! Although I hear the dDrum triggers are good.
Click to expand...

Yep you can get 5 triggers for 100 quid, Red Shot Triggers, its what im buying :)
 
Dave said:
Triggering isn't really the same as an electronic kit DMP too, although I guess it's the same principle - a lot of bands use it now to increase the stage presence of the drums a bit. (or for making the bass drum a bit clearer if you're playing death metal at 1000000 bpm :p) Wouldn't know where to start on it though, as I don't think I'll ever use them! Although I hear the dDrum triggers are good.
Click to expand...

I suppose you could use the triggers to add a specific effect to the real drum rather than using it to trigger an electronic sound from a drum machine. You could still get some fairly electronic sounding drums that way by using some funky effects :D, but at least they'd be based off the real drum. Not sure how to go about that and what effects units would accept triggers as inputs. I suppose midi would be an option as well. The effects unit would obviously need to sit between the drums and the PA.
 
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Neoni said:
Hey all,

Looking at expanding capabilties of my kit, and beefing up the sound some what for live performances, im looking at some drum triggers, no heres my beef!

If i take each signal from the drum trigger and send them into a Trigger to MIDI converter which converter should i buy? then can i take the MIDI signal, and Transfer MIDI > USB, into my Macbook Pro into Logic 8, into a Drum Module (EzDrummer, or Similar) then take the signal out of the mac, straight into the PA.

Doable?

-Neoni

P.s - whys my avatar a drumkit?
Click to expand...

It should work in theory, just be sure to try and get as low latency as possible. :)
 
melchy said:
I suppose you could use the triggers to add a specific effect to the real drum rather than using it to trigger an electronic sound from a drum machine. You could still get some fairly electronic sounding drums that way by using some funky effects :D, but at least they'd be based off the real drum. Not sure how to go about that and what effects units would accept triggers as inputs. I suippose midi would be an option as well. The effects unit would obviously need to sit between the drums and the PA.
Click to expand...

going to add effects using Logic 8, so different tracks for different drums, then add effects where needed!
 
Neoni said:
going to add effects using Logic 8, so different tracks for different drums, then add effects where needed!
Click to expand...

I think I get it. Each trigger has a different midi channel assigned. Multiple tracks set up in logic 8, one for each midi channel, each with an appropriate effect assigned.

Will the drums (mic's) not need to be fed through the mac for the effects to be applied ? Or are we just talking about triggered sounds and samples ?
 
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melchy said:
I think I get it. Each trigger has a different midi channel assigned. Multiple tracks set up in logic 8, one for each midi channel, each with an appropriate effect assigned.

Will the drums not need to be fed through the mac for the effects to be applied ? Or are we just talking about triggered sounds and samples ?
Click to expand...

Signal from the Triggers, into the Trigger IO ive found one that uses a Trigger>MIDI>Usb in one! so connect via usb, all sounds are generated within the macbook pro, then from the pro straight into the Mixing Desk

what do we think to this its cheaper than the roland -

http://www.soundware.co.uk/sc/products/Alesis Trigger IO
 
Neoni said:
Signal from the Triggers, into the Trigger IO ive found one that uses a Trigger>MIDI>Usb in one! so connect via usb, all sounds are generated within the macbook pro, then from the pro straight into the Mixing Desk

what do we think to this its cheaper than the roland -

http://www.soundware.co.uk/sc/products/Alesis Trigger IO
Click to expand...

Seems reasonable to me. As I mentioned above, I think that if you can pipe the mic's from the drums into the mac there's no reason why you couldn't apply some funky effects to the real drums which may give you better results than triggering a sampled sound.

I think the triggers and the Alesis trigger / midi convertor will allow you to do what you want.
 
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