Dumb/Lazy White British

But the top performing schools in Birmingham are in largely white areas ... (edit I shall qualify that by saying the recognised total top performers are very ethnically mixed in origin but the children are of British descent).

(for the third time)


Where is the adjustment in those figures for parents profession and education, socio-economic status, participation, amount of times moving school, actual school, etc the things we do know actually have real bearing on a child's success. To attribute it to something without ruling out those more logical explanations is just farcical and is repeating the rubbish people said about black people 100 years ago.
 
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But the top performing schools in Birmingham are in largely white areas ...

(for the third time)

We also need to continue ignoring unemployment amongst certain minorities too as that wouldn't help the lazy white stereotype either...
 
This is really quite simple like I said earlier if 100 immigrant families come into the country and both the parents are degree educated then they will outperform 100 "white" families where the parents have no further educational qualifications. That is nothing to do with their immigration status, or their skin colour, or anything else other than the fact middle-class people with middle-class values encourage their children to do well. Strangely enough one of the largest immigrant family structures to enter London due to the nature of the job market is nurses - 1000's of them - all of them degree educated and if they are like the ones I've met all of them don't want their kids to become nurses they want them to become doctors they push them hard. To attribute the success to their immigration status or ethnicity is wrong the drive comes from their profession and their education and their desire for their children to attain.
 
But the top performing schools in Birmingham are in largely white areas ... (edit I shall qualify that by saying the recognised total top performers are very ethnically mixed in origin but the children are of British descent).

(for the third time)


Where is the adjustment in those figures for parents profession and education, socio-economic status, participation, amount of times moving school, actual school, etc the things we do know actually have real bearing on a child's success. To attribute it to something without ruling out those more logical explanations is just farcical and is repeating the rubbish people said about black people 100 years ago.



Any of those other factors are simply not relevant to the study, why is that so hard for you to understand? They didn't do DNA analysis, measure brain mass, diet, childhood illness, whether the mother smoked or drank during pregnancy, age of parents during procreation, hormone differences or a host of other known IQ and performance correlates.

These things have all been measured before and their affect well publicized.
The research summarized in the BBC is simply explaining why London school children on average do better than the rest of England.this isn't rocket science, the results show that the white British school children don't do better, the effect comes from the large immigrant population.

There can be many reasons for the effect, one of which is the attitude of the children from different ethnic backgrounds. The reason for those attitude differences are not a part of the research because it is simply not needed to explain the result.
 
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This is really quite simple like I said earlier if 100 immigrant families come into the country and both the parents are degree educated then they will outperform 100 "white" families where the parents have no further educational qualifications. That is nothing to do with their immigration status, or their skin colour, or anything else other than the fact middle-class people with middle-class values encourage their children to do well. Strangely enough one of the largest immigrant family structures to enter London due to the nature of the job market is nurses - 1000's of them - all of them degree educated and if they are like the ones I've met all of them don't want their kids to become nurses they want them to become doctors they push them hard. To attribute the success to their immigration status or ethnicity is wrong the drive comes from their profession and their education and their desire for their children to attain.



And none of that disproves anything in the research, they are just possible causal factors why there arethe difference, not proof that the difference dont exist. The research doesn't seek to find why immigrant children in London have a better attitude and perform better, that very well may be the educational and socioeconomic status of the patents, but that level of information isn't required to explain the outcome.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30002991

Recent research shows that the "london effect" of schools in the capital acheiving higher GCSE results than the rest of the country is actually a racial divide. Namely, that White-British are underacheivers, and London has a lot less of them (36% compared to 84% in rUK). Also discovered was that this difference dissapears the more generations the familly has been in the UK.

Couple that with the recent economic data that shows that native Brits are terrible value for money for the tax payer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497) and a picture starts to form of native Brits not being that good.
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They don't fair much better on Obesity either
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http://www.noo.org.uk/NOO_about_obesity/inequalities


So, why do White British people suck?

They dont, London with its immigration population and central spending is much better funded than the rest of the UK. The white British displaced by immigrants no longer live in london and the immigrants are not connected to any social group and are removed from social aspectations of a social group. "The only employment open to me will be shipyard, docks, mills, coal mines..... I dont need an education".

Lets not forget the political supression of the British working classes before the immigrates arrived and the mess that was left after 2 world wars. A lot of people lived not that long ago in what would have been not much better than 3rd world condishions. Before passing judgement on the White British population, just remember that it was them that over came the political supression and gained all these freedoms you now enjoy.
 
And none of that disproves anything in the research, they are just possible causal factors why there arethe difference, not proof that the difference dont exist. The research doesn't seek to find why immigrant children in London have a better attitude and perform better, that very well may be the educational and socioeconomic status of the patents, but that level of information isn't required to explain the outcome.

No, it doesn't disprove the research but they are known factors to contribute to the education. But the research doesn't exclude them but then goes on to attribute qualities to their immigration status. That is a false conclusion. And that false conclusion is being used denigrate people based upon skin colour - see thread title contents of OP and subsequent comments here and let alone other places. And more importantly being used as a pro-uncontrolled immigration argument.

You've just admitted there their immigration status is likely irrelevant and it could be due to other factors!
 
The real take home message form the article is this:


The question is, how can we help the the average white British child to be as motivated as the immigrant children who, on average, put a greater value on education?


I know from my experience at school there were plenty of children that did not see the value of eduction, were uninterested in learning, and bullied those who tried hard or did well in exams. That is an attitude that needs to change if the gap in performance is to reduce. IMO, this goes straight back to their parents who must instill such value upon their children really.

Separate the underachieving kids from their parents and set them up with more motivated adults? By their been nature people who immigrate are going to be more motivated to strive for a better life and that will generally be passed on to their kids. Thats obviously not going to happen though... :p

The biggest barrier to social mobility is parents in many cases. If they can't be bothered to push their child then it's a lot added for schools to teach them and push them in turn.
 
If you'd made this thread with the title "Dumb/Lazy Black British" it would have either been deleted or had tons of replies screaming racism.

Obviously there are double standards on this forum and in British society. You can thank decades of PC BS for that
 
Race war ?
v27CI7z.jpg


I was going to write a long post, but pretty much everything I was going to say has already been said.

The statistics are meaningless without the context behind them or the causes, to me it's irrelevant either way - my views on immigration are based on a recognition we are one species (not an assumed economic benefit or loss) - one with an innate desire to travel to greener pastures.

It's part of the human condition.
 
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Us blood clots are really clever, we get all none locals to do all the work for us, so we can sit and watch TV all day.

Not so dumb are we :)
 
If you'd made this thread with the title "Dumb/Lazy Black British" it would have either been deleted or had tons of replies screaming racism.

Obviously there are double standards on this forum and in British society. You can thank decades of PC BS for that

There are tons of replies screaming racism, so your point is moot.

Edit typo
 
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No, it doesn't disprove the research but they are known factors to contribute to the education. But the research doesn't exclude them but then goes on to attribute qualities to their immigration status. That is a false conclusion. And that false conclusion is being used denigrate people based upon skin colour - see thread title contents of OP and subsequent comments here and let alone other places. And more importantly being used as a pro-uncontrolled immigration argument.

You've just admitted there their immigration status is likely irrelevant and it could be due to other factors!


The research doesn't need to exclude those factors because that is not the aim of the research. The research aims to answer 2 very simple questions:
1) Does the 'London Effect' of higher average school performance exist.
2) What is the main reason for this.

The research effectively answers both questions at a high level using sound statistical reasoning. 1) The London effect is real and not only occurs in London but other cities like Birmingham. 2) The reason why London average school performance is so high is due to the high level of immigrant children that perform above average. Reasons why other cities like Birmingham are also above average are not part of the research questions. No claim is made that what happens in London is replicated nationwide. The main reason immigrant children in London appear to do well is attitudinal differences, nothing inherent about abilities. No reasoning is provided for these differences because it is not needed to explain the results.


Your logic seems completely lost in attempt to discredit the research. The research specifically doesn't claim there are intrinsic differences based on race and explicitly does not exclude external factors surrounding immigrant performance. You are trying to look for something that simply isn't there.

The research is not about why immigrant children perform above average, but why London is above average when measured across all school children. These are very different questions that you are trying and failing to collapse into one.


Here is a another example:

There is a large box containing 1000 apples. An average apple weighs 6oz, so the whole box should weigh 6000oz (375lbs), but when weighed it is actually significantly more, 6300oz. To find out why investigators examined the apples and found that 700 apples came from farmer Jones and those apples did indeed average 6oz but 300 apples came from farmer Smith and those apples weighed 7oz on average. Therefore the reason why the average of the 1000 apples is more than 6oz it is sufficient to simply explain that farmer Smith's apples weigh above average. There are likely reasons for this (additional sun/water/fertilizer etc.) but those factors aren't important in to answering the question. You seem very focused on the reasons why farmer Smith's apples are above average but all of those reasons like sun or water are already well understood and researched so it is not important to answering the question. No one is doubting that more fertilizer wont help both farmer's apples but that is irrelevant to the question asked: why is the box of apples above average, well some apples are from farmer Smith and his apples weigh more than average.

Of course there are many reasons why immigrant children in London do well, no one is discounting them. Those reasons are well researched independently so don't make valuable research in understanding the London effect. As you point out, those other factor explain the differences, not the skin colour or ethnic background. That is very important to note to prevent racial arguments, and the paper and the BBC article make that point very clearly. The same care has to be taken whenever discussing why, for example, black people are over represented in certain crimes. As long as you understand that conflating factors exist and don't assume differences are related only to skin colour or race then there is no issue in discussing these topics.

Finally, your argument that the paper is flawed seems to be that some people like the OP have made racists remarks (purportedly lighthearted). The paper specifically states there is no inherent differences and the authors can not be responsible for other peoples interpretations or statements when it makes this point very clear.
 
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There are tons of replies screaming racism, so your point is mute.

However his point isnt 'mute' ( I think you mean moot, but anyways )

The case against PC madness was never levied at the General Public it has been at an Institutional level

Most recently with the Hudds scandal but in so many other ways and so many other organisations, in this instance the power authority is the OCUK Admin and yet again no matter how much the General Public ( forum posters ) disagree with the stance as you rightly pointed out it is moot.. because the person in charge is institutionally biased/afraid and again they are in a position of "relative" authority over a highly popular UK tech forum with thousands of members of the public viewing it.

In this small minutia of GD there exists a double standard akin to the exact same double standards we see in wider society.
 
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However his point isnt 'mute' ( I think you mean moot, but anyways )

The case against PC madness was never levied at the General Public it has been at an Institutional level

Most recently with the Hudds scandal but in so many other ways and so many other organisations, in this instance the power authority is the OCUK Admin and yet again no matter how much the General Public ( forum posters ) disagree with the stance as you rightly pointed out it is moot.. because the person in charge is institutionally biased and again they are in a position of "relative" authority over a highly popular UK tech forum with thousands of members of the public viewing it.

In this small minutia of GD there exists a double standard akin to the exact same double standards we see in wider society.



OCUk has always been very biased and has a terrible historic reputation for racism and homophobia. OCUK forums have been known as technical support for the BNP.


OCUK is much more balanced these days and the forum moderation take more care to stop anti-Muslim, antisemitism, homophobic and coloured racism threads before they get out of control in order to restore OCUK's reputation. OCUK does not have a history of white racism, quite the opposite, and that is why is likely why the thread o black criminal representation was stopped early before it went out of control and this thread remains (although it has been ruined by people unable to comprehend the research)
 
OCUk has always been very biased and has a terrible historic reputation for racism and homophobia. OCUK forums have been known as technical support for the BNP.


OCUK is much more balanced these days and the forum moderation take more care to stop anti-Muslim, antisemitism, homophobic and coloured racism threads before they get out of control in order to restore OCUK's reputation. OCUK does not have a history of white racism, quite the opposite, and that is why is likely why the thread o black criminal representation was stopped early before it went out of control and this thread remains (although it has been ruined by people unable to comprehend the research)

Fair point well made, that’s good news.

But a pendulum swings in both directions.
 
You cant hold back the truth man. Its real, its what the kids are saying on the streets. You cant fight that man. Its change.
 
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