E46 radiator popped

[iaind]

Not really, no. We are talking about cheap cars here - the sort of cars bought by people in order to save £120 a year on road tax, or because they will save a tenner a month on fuel.

Me personally? I'm not that bothered by the cost of a cambelt but neither am I buying diesel powered Polo's. I just don't see the benefit to the consumer. Why as a consumer is a cambelt anything other than less desireable than a chain? It has a higher chance of breaking, it introduces additional servicing cost - what does the cambelt on a Polo diesel do that the chain in a Corsa diesel doesnt, apart from cost its owner more money?

Who said the discussion was soley about cheap cars? Is that just the assumption that only cheap small hatches have belts?

I fully agree that chains are superior, I was just surprised that it appeared cost would be an issue

 

[Joshy]

I simply wouldn't pay a college drop out retard that much to do that to my car.

Ouch .

Anyway, I'm firmly in the "Does it really matter?" camp. I've got my doubts that someone who has the money for a 4 year old car and is willing to get it serviced at a main dealer is going to majorly sweat a bill of a couple on hundred quid. It's an expense that needs to be eventually factored in.

In the end one could argue that it will balances out in the end. Sure, someone with a VAG car needs to have their cambelt replaced... at least it's cheaper than having the entire cooling system renewed on a all mighty chain driven BMW .

 

[aproctor]

The job is the same, your changing the timing belt regardless of layout.....It still isn't rocket science, its a belt that wraps around some 'cogs'.

Have you ever tried to change a belt on a FWD Audi, especially those with large engines?

It might be an hour to change the belt, but add another at least to get to the damn thing.

Cambelt changes are usually £200 on something like a KA at an indie, people with a 5 year old Golf who are fairly likely to stick it in a main dealer will pay double.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Cost is a factor - just that, a factor. I'm not saying OMG CAMBELTS SUCK AS THEY COST MONEY TO REPLACE, OMG. It's simply a disadvantage over a cambelt over a camchain, thats all.

 

[PMKeates]

Saying one shouldn't factor the cam belt in to running costs on any car is a little silly. It is something that means you will have to buy most second hand cars either in the knowledge it has been done, or you might have to it.

The chances of costly breakage and the chances of having to pay someone for many hours of labour are increased significantly over chain.

 

[Will Gill]

oh thought Id state it here, i had a dream my cambelt snapped the other day, didnt see the need to make a new thread, so id like to see how realistic my dream turns out

with regard to the OP, mal if you want a tow, im game, no idea if my car has toe eyes though

 

[bmh.01]

If the rest of it is fine, there is no need to change the rest of the timing components if you know the car.. I know why you are saying this, but it isn't always applicable. Sure, if someone asked me I'd say change the lot... but I've just swapped belts for people and the things still troop on. Pot luck. I know of one collapsed idler, but that wasn't me. And if it was, I wouldn't be bothered because that would be their choice to keep it on there.

I've done more renault F4/F7x and E7x type lumps than I care to remember, it really isn't rocket science, regardless of car.

Whats harder, changing the belt on one, or completely blue printing a F7x engine? Hmm I wonder.

Neither would I class them anywhere near modern engines whatever that is, its block design going back decades.

You shouldn't really need timing marks either to be honest. Not unless you really are dicking about!

Older engines relied on timing marks and they were usually precast into the pulleys and covers from manufacture, hardly dicking about.

If your familiar with them then whilst I agree the older F7 and deffo the 8v E7 lumps (using timing marks!) are far more conventional and easier to do, depening on the car its fitted too. Clio Valvers and Williams aren't the most space affording cars! The F4 is a totally different game though, there is no way of changing a timing belt properly on one of those without the locking tools due to the floating cam and on certain models crank pulleys. You have to slacken the cam pulleys off to get the belt tension correct and uniform, you may scoff and say thats elementary too and I agree to a degree its just another straightforward step you must make but you'd be amazed how many so called compentant garages can't get it right. And in the case of the hot clios it costs a lot of power.

 

[Biohazard]

Me personally? I'm not that bothered by the cost of a cambelt but neither am I buying diesel powered Polo's. I just don't see the benefit to the consumer. Why as a consumer is a cambelt anything other than less desireable than a chain? It has a higher chance of breaking, it introduces additional servicing cost - what does the cambelt on a Polo diesel do that the chain in a Corsa diesel doesnt, apart from cost its owner more money?

Cheap cars come with belts, generally speaking.

Its easier and importantly cheaper to produce.

In the same breathe, you aren't buying an expensive make of car.

Its called trade offs.

I didn't start this on the economic angle however, I just preffer working with belts than chains. I also rely on the benefits of it.

 

[Biohazard]

Older engines relied on timing marks and they were usually precast into the pulleys and covers from manufacture, hardly dicking about.

Having to use them is dicking about, rotate it to tdc and take it easy. If nothing moves, its perfectly straight innit? Splitting the block is also 'dicking' about with me these days, being lazy an that.

The renault timing cast marks can also be quite pointless on a gunked up engine, especially the little 'gashes' cut into the rocker cover.

If your familiar with them then whilst I agree the older F7 and deffo the 8v E7 lumps (using timing marks!) are far more conventional and easier to do, depening on the car its fitted too. Clio Valvers and Williams aren't the most space affording cars!

No they aren't but its not completely impossible to do in situ, just bloody annoying. Undo mounts and jack it about. If I had the crane handy, I would probably just pull it. Certainly not a long job if you have the energy/will to get it done quickly. Clios are craptastic little things anyway, and the engine bay is far too crampt for my liking. Thats partly why I don't drive one anymore.

Haynes says clutch on the 19 is a engine out job, which it isn't. etc

The motor world is full of this.

The F4 is a totally different game though, there is no way of changing a timing belt properly on one of those without the locking tools due to the floating cam and on certain models crank pulleys. You have to slacken the cam pulleys off to get the belt tension correct and uniform, you may scoff and say thats elementary too and I agree to a degree its just another straightforward step you must make but you'd be amazed how many so called compentant garages can't get it right. And in the case of the hot clios it costs a lot of power.

Its ok, I've built up enough renault lumps for me to convince myself I know what I'm doing

Also, you can get laser tools for the renault vvt cams (i think you mentioned before difficulty in sourcing or cost), numbers 3388 and 3529 is what you need iirc.

I've got a few F7P's, a F4R and a other various renault engines kicking about. I could draw them in my sleep if need be. Sadly. I need to get them GONE!

 

[ShakenNstirred]

Since when do chains ever need lubricating anyway? (unless they are self lubricating somehow)

they dont, there lubricated by the engine oil

 

[Biohazard]

they dont, there lubricated by the engine oil

jet nozzles can block with poor maintence.