Wouldn't bother with the extreme pads anyway, the only thing that gets hot is the core and too cool memory is already problematic with the EK pads.
EK Active Backplate Waterblock install for 4090 FE
- Thread starter Jay-G25
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Wouldn't bother with the extreme pads anyway, the only thing that gets hot is the core and too cool memory is already problematic with the EK pads.
I've just managed to get normal mem temps back.
Use Gelid Extreme pads everywhere the manual tells you to do so. Use EK crappy pads on the ram except 3mm x 3mm per ram module so you are only covering 20% of it. My ram temps at +1800 are now 56C on 3dMark on inside ambient water. Not tried chilled yet. Not tried extended gaming, but it ramps up from idle 28C to 56C instantly and holds it there. Ran Port Royal once and got 29474. I can see 30k coming.
Use Gelid Extreme pads everywhere the manual tells you to do so. Use EK crappy pads on the ram except 3mm x 3mm per ram module so you are only covering 20% of it. My ram temps at +1800 are now 56C on 3dMark on inside ambient water. Not tried chilled yet. Not tried extended gaming, but it ramps up from idle 28C to 56C instantly and holds it there. Ran Port Royal once and got 29474. I can see 30k coming.
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Be annoying if they release some software (I have no idea if that is possible) that sorts this out and means cooler memory is a beneficial thing again! I hope to never have to take apart this 4090 again. I would have enjoyed it if it didn't cost more than my car though!
I doubt it, but if they did, it's a 1 hour fix, possibly 2 if I have to drain the main system which I haven't built yet. Hope they do though
Damn. Reading this thread has really got me thinking. I’ve an order for the EK block including ABP, but I’m wondering if I should cancel and just stick with air. It’s basically silent and if the vram is on the same side as the GPU then I guess there’s no avoiding cooling the memory…
Hmm. Would be nice to get it looking smaller again tho - the MSI Suprim X is huge and just looks weird after the 3090 with no ABP.
I feel like when summer comes I’ll appreciate a waterblock, but on those hot days the fans still get going. Right now I have three huge rads all cooling the CPU lol. It is cooler tho. The GPU adds a lot of heat to the rads with it large surface area.
This thread has really got me scratching my head!
Hmm. Would be nice to get it looking smaller again tho - the MSI Suprim X is huge and just looks weird after the 3090 with no ABP.
I feel like when summer comes I’ll appreciate a waterblock, but on those hot days the fans still get going. Right now I have three huge rads all cooling the CPU lol. It is cooler tho. The GPU adds a lot of heat to the rads with it large surface area.
This thread has really got me scratching my head!
I don’t overclock anymore anyway, for me it’s really about giving it the easiest life and getting as quiet as possible (along with the pleasure from putting it all together)
I take it there is no drawback from a ‘running stock’ perspective in using either EK kits?
Edit - just did a quick bench and port royal seems to hit 25943 with mem around 1300mhz (guessing this is doubled in HWinfo coz it reads 2525 there) so I don't think I have anything to worry about and can just look at the water block whenever I need to feel better. Also GPU maxes out at 69 but the hot spot was 78.7 so I fancy bringing that down. Mem seems not to go above 21C as it is according to HWinfo. Is that right? GPU clock sitting at 2805mhz. If you're still reading this, welcome to the ramblings of my inner monologue.
Edit 2 - decided to see what the card can actually do with no changes but core and mem using afterburner. Seems like its best performance happens with core +170 and memory +1000. Can do more (and sort of want to for the where the MHz lands on round numbers - 3000mhz on both does look quite nice in HWinfo). Didn’t go so far as to lose stability, just slight losses in FPS and what I thought I could see as micro stutters even tho benchmark scores were up. Port royal seems to land on 26856 which is good enough for me - doubt I’m going anywhere near 30k
I’ll use these results for comparisons once I end up with it being cooled with water. I think given you guys are pushing way more then I should be fine with these, but I will report back if it doesn’t work out that way.
It’s been an education!
I take it there is no drawback from a ‘running stock’ perspective in using either EK kits?
Edit - just did a quick bench and port royal seems to hit 25943 with mem around 1300mhz (guessing this is doubled in HWinfo coz it reads 2525 there) so I don't think I have anything to worry about and can just look at the water block whenever I need to feel better. Also GPU maxes out at 69 but the hot spot was 78.7 so I fancy bringing that down. Mem seems not to go above 21C as it is according to HWinfo. Is that right? GPU clock sitting at 2805mhz. If you're still reading this, welcome to the ramblings of my inner monologue.
Edit 2 - decided to see what the card can actually do with no changes but core and mem using afterburner. Seems like its best performance happens with core +170 and memory +1000. Can do more (and sort of want to for the where the MHz lands on round numbers - 3000mhz on both does look quite nice in HWinfo). Didn’t go so far as to lose stability, just slight losses in FPS and what I thought I could see as micro stutters even tho benchmark scores were up. Port royal seems to land on 26856 which is good enough for me - doubt I’m going anywhere near 30k
I’ll use these results for comparisons once I end up with it being cooled with water. I think given you guys are pushing way more then I should be fine with these, but I will report back if it doesn’t work out that way.
It’s been an education!
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If you plan to run it at stock or typical indoor ambient temperature then there's nothing to be worried about. You will only lose 10% of its max mem overclocking potential. It's when you introduce it to chilled water or outside temps it significantly reduces its overclocking ability.I don’t overclock anymore anyway, for me it’s really about giving it the easiest life and getting as quiet as possible (along with the pleasure from putting it all together)
I take it there is no drawback from a ‘running stock’ perspective in using either EK kits?
Edit - just did a quick bench and port royal seems to hit 25943 with mem around 1300mhz (guessing this is doubled in HWinfo coz it reads 2525 there) so I don't think I have anything to worry about and can just look at the water block whenever I need to feel better. Also GPU maxes out at 69 but the hot spot was 78.7 so I fancy bringing that down. Mem seems not to go above 21C as it is according to HWinfo. Is that right? GPU clock sitting at 2805mhz. If you're still reading this, welcome to the ramblings of my inner monologue.
Edit 2 - decided to see what the card can actually do with no changes but core and mem using afterburner. Seems like its best performance happens with core +170 and memory +1000. Can do more (and sort of want to for the where the MHz lands on round numbers - 3000mhz on both does look quite nice in HWinfo). Didn’t go so far as to lose stability, just slight losses in FPS and what I thought I could see as micro stutters even tho benchmark scores were up. Port royal seems to land on 26856 which is good enough for me - doubt I’m going anywhere near 30k
I’ll use these results for comparisons once I end up with it being cooled with water. I think given you guys are pushing way more then I should be fine with these, but I will report back if it doesn’t work out that way.
It’s been an education!
Just use EK thermal pads not aftermarket ones, and if you want to maintain max oc ability only put the thermal pad cut to 25% of the ram chip size on each ram chip in the centre which will reduce the cooling potential, but still ensure it has some cooling.
I did some chilled water benching today with my ABP TUF EK water block with 10C water and could run 100 - 95% of my max ram oc on all benchmarks using this method. Need it to be colder though as 10C is still too warm
If you plan to run it at stock or typical indoor ambient temperature then there's nothing to be worried about. You will only lose 10% of its max mem overclocking potential. It's when you introduce it to chilled water or outside temps it significantly reduces its overclocking ability.
Just use EK thermal pads not aftermarket ones, and if you want to maintain max oc ability only put the thermal pad cut to 25% of the ram chip size on each ram chip in the centre which will reduce the cooling potential, but still ensure it has some cooling.
I did some chilled water benching today with my ABP TUF EK water block with 10C water and could run 100 - 95% of my max ram oc on all benchmarks using this method. Need it to be colder though as 10C is still too warm
Cheers!
It is nice having this colder weather to play with. It’s when it gets to summer that I despair as even WC can get noisy and your 24/7 settings get tested, so now I’m under volting on my CPU and it’s basically still just as fast.
In the old days I remember using a vapochill and the effort I went to to avoid condensation. Imagine cold water is fine right now, but doing the same in summer probably adds some risk? Thinking of how quickly a can of coke from the fridge (6c) gets condensation in the warmer weather.
Yeah ABP and full size pads it is. Will deffo use LM for the GPU tho.
Im not sure the science behind it, but my PC is in my kitchen in 20C temp conditions, and my MO-RA3 is outside at full blast. I turn it on a few mins before I turn the PC on to get the water cooler and no sign of condensation at all. Same thing when I tried with 5C water.
Maybe it has to do with the fact the components and tubing are quite thick and don't cool to that temp, or the running water prevents it from condensation. Someone with more knowledge would be better to answer, but so far with anything above 0C ive never encountered condensation (yet)
Ah well I think it’s a lot more likely where the air is warm, because it can contain more moisture but even cooler air can and will condensate at a point. I’m not sure the deltas or pressure requirements, but sub zero temps are a problem at any temps in someone’s home… I used to use soft putty and push it into every last bit of space around the CPU and I’d still find evidence of moisture - a slight rusty tinge here are there. The worst places being anywhere the there is a sudden difference in temp, so the hot air in the gaps around the CPU (or GPU I suppose) as it meets the chilled metal of the block. Things like SMDs would be the first place I’d look.
Im sure you’re fine tho. I didn’t come here to make anyone paranoid!
Have you done it with such cold water in summer and still been ok?
Im sure you’re fine tho. I didn’t come here to make anyone paranoid!
Have you done it with such cold water in summer and still been ok?
Check this out. A dew calculator.
waterleak.co.uk
I don’t know the relative humidity in your kitchen but if its 50 and your temp is 20c then the dew point is 9c!
So maybe proceed with some caution as if the water gets low enough that the surfaces become 9 or less then you potentially get water forming. Of course the sources of heat will potentially raise the dew point, but with with lower humidity (because the rest of the air which arrived was already colder and contained less moisture in the first place) you’re probably not going to need to worry about that.
I looked up your giant rad thing. Amazing. I thought I had a lot of surface area but haha nothing like that. Bravo!
Dew Point Calculator - Simple And Fast Version
Our simple Dew Point Calculator will help you understand what the surface temperature is at which condensation will form on surfaces in your home.
waterleak.co.uk
I don’t know the relative humidity in your kitchen but if its 50 and your temp is 20c then the dew point is 9c!
So maybe proceed with some caution as if the water gets low enough that the surfaces become 9 or less then you potentially get water forming. Of course the sources of heat will potentially raise the dew point, but with with lower humidity (because the rest of the air which arrived was already colder and contained less moisture in the first place) you’re probably not going to need to worry about that.
I looked up your giant rad thing. Amazing. I thought I had a lot of surface area but haha nothing like that. Bravo!
Some numbers from a non active backplate block for reference.
Inno3D frostbite, ref PCB, 450w bios. Alphacool ref block. Good slab of copper on the front, thin pads on core, mem and VRM. 6mm backplate with thicker pads in same locations - specs on Alphacool website.
Under a decent load 350w plus with typical 125w from CPU I'm seeing up to a 14 degree delta from water temp to core. Mem is core +/- 3, hotspot is up to core + 10.
Using 30mm 420 & 280 as intakes, ML 140 fans, DDC. Conservative fan and pump profiles targeting 40c water temp. Typically running fans and pump at <50%.
Inno3D frostbite, ref PCB, 450w bios. Alphacool ref block. Good slab of copper on the front, thin pads on core, mem and VRM. 6mm backplate with thicker pads in same locations - specs on Alphacool website.
Under a decent load 350w plus with typical 125w from CPU I'm seeing up to a 14 degree delta from water temp to core. Mem is core +/- 3, hotspot is up to core + 10.
Using 30mm 420 & 280 as intakes, ML 140 fans, DDC. Conservative fan and pump profiles targeting 40c water temp. Typically running fans and pump at <50%.
Did you place Thermal pads on the rear of the pcb behind where the memory goes ?
I will be doing this all over again after having to RMA my original 4090 FE and having recently got a new one and as this one is a very very good clocker on air i want to get this right this time and not lose a chunk of memory oc
I wont be bothering with expensive gelid pads this time and will just use the EK supplied pads that i never originally used ... do you have any pics with the small 3x3mm cuts you done for yours ?Perfect will apply full pads to the back as well thenUnfortunately no pics and havent taken it apart since. Full pads on back except I didn't put any on VRMS as it amplified Coil whine too much.How many 4090s have you had now
This is 4090 No 3 , i am trying to keep up with @LtMatt
was getting some black screen issues with my previous one even when run at stock so think the card was faulty but Nvidia sorted me a new one ( 10 day turn around from UK to HK then back to UK ) Jensen knew i liked to oc the card and sent me back one of his golden samples On air the core will boost to 3195Mhz but will drop to 3180Mhz as it gets warmer , will happily run 3120Mhz in PR ... Memory is pretty decent as well with it being able to get up to +1700 before it starts to artifact, overall very happy with it and look forward to see what it does once cooled with the core
thanks for sharing your setup and experience Jay , I ordered mine full hog yesterday before checking this thread. I was going to go for the version without ABP but quite liked the aesthetics on this block.
I run modest overclock on GPU @ 1000 @ 250 which leaves me with little headroom my mem oc peak is 1200 and 300 with gpu which was ceiling for OC.
As long as i can stay @ my modest setting above @1000 @ 250 happy to stick with it on order , what are you views I'm aware memory has certain operating temp but given headroom thinking i wont miss anything of my default OC ?
I run modest overclock on GPU @ 1000 @ 250 which leaves me with little headroom my mem oc peak is 1200 and 300 with gpu which was ceiling for OC.
As long as i can stay @ my modest setting above @1000 @ 250 happy to stick with it on order , what are you views I'm aware memory has certain operating temp but given headroom thinking i wont miss anything of my default OC ?
Attempt No:2 on the new card, thanks to @OC2000 for working out that tiny cuts of thermal pads works a treat on the memory , now memory temp will shoot straight to high 40 low 50 and gets warmer as loop temp increases and more importantly i haven't lost any oc ability although do need to get a little bit of heat in the loop to get it 100% stable at high oc but all good... Perfect
Trail fitting the ABP on the new MB and luckily its fits ,only just! but it fits
Trail fitting the ABP on the new MB and luckily its fits ,only just! but it fits
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just do what i have done above adding tiny thermal pads and you wont lose anything on the memory oc but for what its worth my 1st setup using the expensive gelid pads i only actually lost 50mhz total on my top end ability .... on air would do 1500 on memory but 1450 once watercooled with expensive pads ( waste of money ! ) , the card was set to +1200 on memory for daily use and was perfect
nothing wrong with the standard block mate , if anything it is the safer and better option in that it will fit pretty much all motherboards as standard where as this ABP version is a pita as it requires 15mm clearance so will not fit all MB.... i ordered my new MB not even knowing if it would fit but luckily looks like it will be ok just aboutloving the setup bud , i bottled and went with standard block as out of stock and used what would have been refunded to snag quanum velocity 2 cpu block to go nicely with distro plate , wish i never now thou looks nice