Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
- Posts
- 30,776
It'll be a battery recycling tax by then.
Electric Car
- Thread starter Psycho Sonny
- Start date
Electric Hot Hatch?
Surely you can't have that discussion without bringing up this monster?
The electric car segment is small right now. Manufacturers are building family cars, not cars intended to be really quick. There's cars with low 0-60 times solely because it's easy and it doesn't affect economy. The electric hot hatches and sports cars will come.
The Nismo will be somewhat "warm", like a Suzuki Swift Sport. As with the i3 S, it'll just be a slightly quicker family car.
Surely you can't have that discussion without bringing up this monster?
The electric car segment is small right now. Manufacturers are building family cars, not cars intended to be really quick. There's cars with low 0-60 times solely because it's easy and it doesn't affect economy. The electric hot hatches and sports cars will come.
The Nismo will be somewhat "warm", like a Suzuki Swift Sport. As with the i3 S, it'll just be a slightly quicker family car.
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Indeed. The point was to demonstrate that there's nothing inherently slow about electric car technology. It's simply a matter of money, R&D, time. Manufacturers are focussing on family cars because a) they sell better and b) it's easier. But the time of quick EVs will come.
One of the main upshots of electric is you can have an incredibly quick vehicle that's also really efficient when driven normally. The eSport's range is similar to the normal Zoe when driven in the same manner. With a petrol vehicle, you'd be stuck getting <30MPG.
That's one of the things Tesla owners tend to rave about. They can be getting 120MPGe one minute, and the next they can (if needed) tare past almost any other vehicle you're likely to find on the road.
One of the main upshots of electric is you can have an incredibly quick vehicle that's also really efficient when driven normally. The eSport's range is similar to the normal Zoe when driven in the same manner. With a petrol vehicle, you'd be stuck getting <30MPG.
That's one of the things Tesla owners tend to rave about. They can be getting 120MPGe one minute, and the next they can (if needed) tare past almost any other vehicle you're likely to find on the road.
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This.
For example, if this "hot hatch" large battery version of the leaf has a ~300 mile range 200bhp+ and has a good chassis and drives well and can stay reasonably priced for what it offers (~£30k) then that will make quite a large dent in the new ICE family sized hatch market i think.
I am really glad Nissan have gone down a more conventional design route with the new leaf (both inside and out) and i think it looks really smart compared to the awful design of the last one.
Personally i am crossing my fingers for some really good lease deals on one as the monthly petrol savings could wipe a large part of the monthly lease cost out.
Any garage, unless otherwise stated in the terms of any warranty.
It's a bit of a rip-off really. Servicing in particular. £100 for a health check and a pollen filter change (assuming they actually do it), then a bit more every three years for an unnecessary brake pad change.
The electric drivetrain isn't currently part of the MOT, so it doesn't get checked.
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Most of the parts checked in an MOT will still be there. I guess the rules will get updated eventually.
But there isn't much to service on them which you can't just do yourself in 10 minutes. The motors etc are sealed units. But they'll probably void your warranty if you don't turn up and pay them £2-300 for them to do basically nothing. Once it's out of warranty though, whatever.
But there isn't much to service on them which you can't just do yourself in 10 minutes. The motors etc are sealed units. But they'll probably void your warranty if you don't turn up and pay them £2-300 for them to do basically nothing. Once it's out of warranty though, whatever.
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And yet, in the news recently was a report suggesting that the fastest depreciation cars out there (Up to 85% in less than 3 years) are vehicles like the Zoe and Leaf.
I am guessing that the battery leases are really putting off potential second owners. (The fact that these cars are actually available second hand at these prices says something too. Why are people selling 30 month cars at an 85% loss in the first place.)
Mind, While a new EV is totally out of the question, I might well be interested in a S/H £2 grand Zoe as a third car, ditch the lease, and use as a shopping trolley/skip till it dies.
Somehow however, while the manufacturers might like this, I don't really think it is what the Green lobby hoped for.
I think the main reason behind that is that these are not desirable EV's. They look awful and have a terrible range. This means most simply won't consider one.
I think used values on models with an adequate range will be better.
The range is fine for a lot of people and certainly for a second car,And they are no more horrible than any other small car really. I am sure it is the £50-£100/month battery lease charges that are the killer. That is more than many people driving this type of ICE car spend on fuel. And you have to pay it whether you use it or not.
Cars with "Adequate Range" may well prove to hold their values better, but they will also be likely to be out of the price range for 90% of the driving population certainly as new buys.
Are they all with leased batteries? As far as i can see on Nissan's site, you can own the battery as well.
Ultimately though, the first/early electric cars simply are not desirable at the moment and that is because of the limited range.
There was indeed a story.
Fact check it. Then you'll find out it was just that; a story. Unless you can find me a one year old Leaf for £7,300, or a one year old Zoe (without the battery lease) for £6,500. If you can, please pass on the details. I'll be buying the lot to flog on for a few grand profit (per car).
It's amazing the guff that people will spout in relation to fake news. The price of used EVs is currently appreciating. CAP values have risen significantly over 18 months. And they aren't exactly hanging around long on forecourts.
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A low mileage, three year old battery-lease Zoe was likely purchased for around £10k in the first place.
My invoice was for £9200. Based on CAP data, it has dropped in value by £3500-£4000 from new. That's really not that bad (though it's also not my problem; I bought it on PCP). Renault are asking for £5500 if I want to keep it. According to the motoring press, the battery owned one is only worth about £5k, which is about £4000-£4500 below CAP.
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It is the range. I think that fact alone narrows the market considerably and makes them undesirable for most people. Even if you only do a short trip to work and back, most people still want something that they can go on holiday in or visit family in so will want at least a 200 mile range minimum. I regularly visit family in Devon, Cornwall and Herefordshire. A 100 mile range car would simply be a complete faf to use when doing anything other than my work commute. When there are reasonably priced and can do 250 - 300 miles to a charge, EVs will really take off.
That is why I think the 60kwh leaf will be somewhat of a milestone if priced competitively (under 30k). The model 3
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The new EVs and hybrids coming out are not vehicles with quirky styling, short range and battery leases though so the Zoe and old leaf aren’t really comparable imo.
The new ones will/do look like a normal car and will be barely recognisable from their ICE siblings, will do at least 200-300 miles on a charge and will probably outperform the ICE versions.
Why would the average person buy car A with an ICE engine when the hybrid one looks the same but can do 0-60 quicker and halve their fuel costs? For the full EV versions, for someone doing say 10k a year it would be silly not to go EV. The £1000 a year savings in fuel costs will likely significantly reduce any additional costs at purchase, while giving them a “faster” car.
The next generation of these are not quirky little 2-4 door hatches, they’re Mondeo, CRVs and Range Rover sized vehicles (as an example Volvo already have hybrid versions of their XC90 and the hybrid 60 has just been released).
What’s going to make or break things for the next couple of years is the additional uplift of the EV and hybrid engines. Too much and the savings won’t offset the original cost. thats less relevant for the used market where it’s unlikely prices for the hybrid or electric version of the same car will ever dip below that of the ICE version (unless there’s some expensive failures for that particular EV or hybrid).
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I think people misread the old Leaf. It wasn't a funny looking car because it was an EV and the designers wanted to be different. It was designed by the same LSD induced looney that did the old Micra and the Juke.
The fact that it's instantly recognisable as an EV makes the design somewhat iconic. Not good looking, but culturally significant; the symbol of the shift toward electric transportation. I wouldn't be surprised if they're a future classic for that very reason. Yes, Tesla's Roadster and Model S are equally as important. But neither are as recognisable.
I'm glad that design is gone though
I much prefer the new one (even if it is nondescript).
The fact that it's instantly recognisable as an EV makes the design somewhat iconic. Not good looking, but culturally significant; the symbol of the shift toward electric transportation. I wouldn't be surprised if they're a future classic for that very reason. Yes, Tesla's Roadster and Model S are equally as important. But neither are as recognisable.
I'm glad that design is gone though
I much prefer the new one (even if it is nondescript).